1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,670 welcome to the Richard Dolan show airing 2 00:00:14,308 --> 00:00:20,609 live Monday nights on KCRA radio.com and 3 00:00:17,670 --> 00:00:22,950 now as a podcast on itunes and wherever 4 00:00:20,609 --> 00:00:24,989 else you can find it you can learn more 5 00:00:22,949 --> 00:00:27,530 at my member site Richard Dolan members 6 00:00:24,989 --> 00:00:29,250 calm now join me for a fascinating 7 00:00:27,530 --> 00:00:31,770 exploration of all the things you 8 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:34,289 secretly want to talk about from UFOs to 9 00:00:31,769 --> 00:00:36,269 government shenanigans strange science 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:43,030 future tech and more 11 00:00:36,270 --> 00:00:45,700 [Music] 12 00:00:43,030 --> 00:00:47,289 they're on kgr a radio welcome to the 13 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:48,730 Richard Dolan show where every week we 14 00:00:47,289 --> 00:00:51,969 fight the good fight greetings it's 15 00:00:48,729 --> 00:00:54,009 August 27 2018 happy to be here with you 16 00:00:51,969 --> 00:00:55,689 tonight it's been a busy week for me 17 00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:57,579 finishing up some touches on a booklet 18 00:00:55,689 --> 00:00:59,920 I'm writing more on that over the next 19 00:00:57,579 --> 00:01:01,869 few weeks I did an interview last week 20 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:04,320 on Jimmy church's fade to black radio 21 00:01:01,869 --> 00:01:06,789 show where we had an extremely 22 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,259 wide-ranging discussion I would say we 23 00:01:06,790 --> 00:01:10,868 ended up having a rather candid 24 00:01:08,260 --> 00:01:13,868 conversation about Gaia check the last 25 00:01:10,868 --> 00:01:16,149 minute 30 minutes of his program for 26 00:01:13,868 --> 00:01:17,709 that did a couple of impromptu live 27 00:01:16,149 --> 00:01:19,960 streams as well which are now on my 28 00:01:17,709 --> 00:01:23,019 youtube channel one on the simulation 29 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,269 hypothesis which I've I enjoy thinking 30 00:01:23,019 --> 00:01:28,118 about from time to time and then one on 31 00:01:25,269 --> 00:01:30,819 the proliferation of fakers in the field 32 00:01:28,118 --> 00:01:32,890 of ufology it's too many of them and 33 00:01:30,819 --> 00:01:36,038 seems to be getting worse I'm not saying 34 00:01:32,890 --> 00:01:38,859 everyone lies but I am saying some 35 00:01:36,039 --> 00:01:41,769 people lie because well some people have 36 00:01:38,859 --> 00:01:45,459 always lied and other people seem to 37 00:01:41,769 --> 00:01:49,060 crave the lies weird there's a kind of 38 00:01:45,459 --> 00:01:52,030 sickness growing in our society over all 39 00:01:49,060 --> 00:01:53,710 these in my view we see it reflected in 40 00:01:52,030 --> 00:01:56,670 the UFO community but it's really in 41 00:01:53,709 --> 00:01:59,319 many places it's not unique to UFO areas 42 00:01:56,670 --> 00:02:01,420 I'm quite persuaded at this point that 43 00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:04,239 our corporate media establishment breeds 44 00:02:01,420 --> 00:02:06,129 a kind of mental instability in the 45 00:02:04,239 --> 00:02:07,269 population and I mean literally a mental 46 00:02:06,129 --> 00:02:09,669 instability it's a kind of 47 00:02:07,269 --> 00:02:11,680 disassociation I'm going to return to 48 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:13,059 this at another time but it's just a 49 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,129 thought for the moment I'd like you to 50 00:02:13,060 --> 00:02:19,390 ponder we have a media establishment 51 00:02:15,129 --> 00:02:21,819 that is not your friend I read because I 52 00:02:19,389 --> 00:02:23,289 have to I feel mainstream and 53 00:02:21,819 --> 00:02:25,959 alternative news stories pretty much 54 00:02:23,289 --> 00:02:28,689 every day in my opinion the US 55 00:02:25,959 --> 00:02:30,939 mainstream media is the worst US and UK 56 00:02:28,689 --> 00:02:32,530 actually about tied for the worst in 57 00:02:30,939 --> 00:02:35,109 terms of the range of what they cover 58 00:02:32,530 --> 00:02:38,079 and how they cover it it's by far the 59 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:40,360 most limited i would say childish and 60 00:02:38,079 --> 00:02:42,629 propagandistic of any of the national 61 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,560 news media's that i can but i can see 62 00:02:42,629 --> 00:02:46,269 there's a reason for that and i've 63 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,129 discussed it many times in the past and 64 00:02:46,269 --> 00:02:50,349 i will come back to that again soon 65 00:02:48,129 --> 00:02:53,378 promise but tonight i have a fascinating 66 00:02:50,349 --> 00:02:55,509 guest for you during the last few months 67 00:02:53,378 --> 00:02:56,530 I've been seeking out UFO researchers 68 00:02:55,509 --> 00:02:59,109 from around the world 69 00:02:56,530 --> 00:03:01,900 this one is from Germany my friend the 70 00:02:59,110 --> 00:03:03,340 journalist Robert Fleischer Robert and I 71 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:06,039 have known each other for about 10 years 72 00:03:03,340 --> 00:03:07,780 or so and he's not only a dedicated 73 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:10,179 student of UFOs but he's one of the 74 00:03:07,780 --> 00:03:13,599 leaders in Germany and Central Europe in 75 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:15,310 getting the word out as well as in 76 00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:17,318 dealing with the German government he's 77 00:03:15,310 --> 00:03:19,509 had a great deal of experience in both 78 00:03:17,318 --> 00:03:21,099 of these areas as well as having a 79 00:03:19,509 --> 00:03:23,349 strong knowledge of some of the most 80 00:03:21,099 --> 00:03:26,259 interesting cases in Europe over the 81 00:03:23,349 --> 00:03:27,818 past few decades before I bring Robert 82 00:03:26,259 --> 00:03:29,319 on I'll just remind you that if you want 83 00:03:27,818 --> 00:03:31,958 to follow what I'm doing you can go to 84 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:34,239 my website Richard Dolan members comm 85 00:03:31,959 --> 00:03:36,670 where I delve into UFOs geopolitics and 86 00:03:34,239 --> 00:03:39,370 false flags in the form of video audio 87 00:03:36,669 --> 00:03:41,559 and blog posts also see my traditional 88 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:43,900 side of Richard Dolan press.com where I 89 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,239 have books written by myself and many 90 00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:48,250 other fascinating authors most recently 91 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:52,209 an excellent study by dr. Bruce Maccabee 92 00:03:48,250 --> 00:03:54,519 on the seminal year of 1952 and why it 93 00:03:52,209 --> 00:03:56,319 matters to this day definitely find me 94 00:03:54,519 --> 00:03:58,480 on my youtube channel which is extremely 95 00:03:56,318 --> 00:04:00,879 active for me these days and that 96 00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:02,828 includes my live stream show intelligent 97 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:05,799 disclosure of course you can always find 98 00:04:02,829 --> 00:04:08,079 me here on KCRA every week doing this 99 00:04:05,799 --> 00:04:10,480 program so without any further waiting 100 00:04:08,079 --> 00:04:12,819 let me bring on my guest a very 101 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:15,159 interesting pre-recorded discussion with 102 00:04:12,819 --> 00:04:16,329 Robert Fleischer Robert welcome to the 103 00:04:15,159 --> 00:04:19,209 Richard Dolan show it's a pleasure to 104 00:04:16,329 --> 00:04:21,608 have you on it's a great pleasure for me 105 00:04:19,209 --> 00:04:24,399 to be back thank you for inviting me yes 106 00:04:21,608 --> 00:04:26,829 we have known each other for more than a 107 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:28,870 decade I believe I know that's true I 108 00:04:26,829 --> 00:04:30,969 recall meeting you at I think if I'm not 109 00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:35,259 mistaken some of the ex conferences 110 00:04:30,970 --> 00:04:37,120 organized by Steve Bassett back in 2008 111 00:04:35,259 --> 00:04:38,168 or something yeah my didn't it might 112 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,810 have been doesn't he might have been 113 00:04:38,168 --> 00:04:42,728 earlier and unless that was your first 114 00:04:40,810 --> 00:04:47,470 time there but you've been you've been 115 00:04:42,728 --> 00:04:48,879 very active in European ufology and and 116 00:04:47,470 --> 00:04:49,570 I know you're you're not just a 117 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:51,668 ufologist 118 00:04:49,569 --> 00:04:54,009 or an investigator of the paranormal you 119 00:04:51,668 --> 00:04:57,728 are a journalist but you've done a great 120 00:04:54,009 --> 00:05:01,839 deal of work in really opening up the 121 00:04:57,728 --> 00:05:03,909 UFO phenomenon in Central Europe and I 122 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,908 don't know if there's many people out 123 00:05:03,910 --> 00:05:08,080 there doing what you do but perhaps we 124 00:05:06,908 --> 00:05:10,120 can get a chance to talk about the 125 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:13,120 status of German you 126 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:17,829 for research but for people who aren't 127 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:21,699 familiar at all with UFOs and Germany 128 00:05:17,829 --> 00:05:24,819 what do they need to know well the first 129 00:05:21,699 --> 00:05:26,860 need to know that like UFOs that's a 130 00:05:24,819 --> 00:05:28,569 complete taboo in Germany and you know 131 00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:32,050 we had this I I grew up in East Germany 132 00:05:28,569 --> 00:05:33,099 so that's the communist zone not abide 133 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:34,900 by the Soviets 134 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:37,180 you know tanks rolling in the street 135 00:05:34,899 --> 00:05:41,138 stuff it though was not as bad as that 136 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:43,329 and we had this this joke about East 137 00:05:41,139 --> 00:05:45,310 Germany it's why our bananas curved 138 00:05:43,329 --> 00:05:47,139 because for 40 years they had to make a 139 00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:49,300 turn around East Germany I'll buy a 140 00:05:47,139 --> 00:05:50,978 translator there correctly sounds pretty 141 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:53,288 good and if because we couldn't buy any 142 00:05:50,978 --> 00:05:56,110 bananas in in East Germany if they were 143 00:05:53,288 --> 00:05:58,629 on sale somewhere then you know it 144 00:05:56,110 --> 00:06:00,850 quickly became known and people lined up 145 00:05:58,629 --> 00:06:03,639 in front of the stores and like you had 146 00:06:00,850 --> 00:06:05,110 a line of 10 meters 20 meters or so and 147 00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:07,269 then you came in and and you were able 148 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:09,370 to buy one kilogram of bananas what 149 00:06:07,269 --> 00:06:11,620 they're all almost rotten in a way you 150 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:13,418 know yeah but still you you bought those 151 00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:15,340 bananas and then you changed your 152 00:06:13,418 --> 00:06:18,909 clothes and made step into the line 153 00:06:15,339 --> 00:06:22,119 again you know anyway so that's the 154 00:06:18,910 --> 00:06:24,639 that's a situation about UFOs in Germany 155 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,800 you know I haven't seen any curved UFOs 156 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:30,848 but they seem to make a turn around 157 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:33,250 Germany because this is a non-existent 158 00:06:30,848 --> 00:06:35,050 subject for the German government it 159 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:37,240 seems that way I mean there's very 160 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:39,460 little if any information that ever 161 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,978 comes out of Germany relating to the 162 00:06:39,459 --> 00:06:46,569 subject of UFOs unlike say France or 163 00:06:41,978 --> 00:06:48,459 Britain or even Russia which actually is 164 00:06:46,569 --> 00:06:51,339 over time had a great deal of UFO 165 00:06:48,459 --> 00:06:54,969 information come out but Germany a close 166 00:06:51,339 --> 00:06:57,819 ally of the United States nothing and 167 00:06:54,970 --> 00:06:59,860 nothing and also and also close ally and 168 00:06:57,819 --> 00:07:04,149 a direct neighboring country to France 169 00:06:59,860 --> 00:07:06,129 which has been researching UFOs for more 170 00:07:04,149 --> 00:07:07,959 than 40 years I mean it's really 171 00:07:06,129 --> 00:07:09,579 interesting yeah yeah and you know I 172 00:07:07,959 --> 00:07:10,149 started this I started doing this 173 00:07:09,579 --> 00:07:16,569 full-time 174 00:07:10,149 --> 00:07:18,549 in June 2007 or so when I founded 175 00:07:16,569 --> 00:07:20,889 exopolitics Germany and since then I've 176 00:07:18,550 --> 00:07:23,379 been working on this subject and then I 177 00:07:20,889 --> 00:07:27,879 I found at the exo magazine 178 00:07:23,379 --> 00:07:31,930 online TV magazine for subscribers which 179 00:07:27,879 --> 00:07:34,329 helps me to do this to follow this full 180 00:07:31,930 --> 00:07:37,209 time and this is really what it needs to 181 00:07:34,329 --> 00:07:39,609 to to get something going here and I got 182 00:07:37,209 --> 00:07:41,259 something going and I think I can give 183 00:07:39,610 --> 00:07:45,460 you a little overview of what what I've 184 00:07:41,259 --> 00:07:47,680 been doing and how this all well in in 185 00:07:45,459 --> 00:07:49,599 fact if you want to understand that the 186 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,759 German situation it all goes back to the 187 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,340 United Nations decision thirty three 188 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:55,959 four to six in from nineteen seventy 189 00:07:54,339 --> 00:07:59,649 eight I'm sure you're very well aware of 190 00:07:55,959 --> 00:08:03,819 that that's the decision upon the 191 00:07:59,649 --> 00:08:05,919 initiative of Grenada where the General 192 00:08:03,819 --> 00:08:07,930 Assembly decided they would invite 193 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,449 interested member states to conduct 194 00:08:07,930 --> 00:08:12,220 research on UFOs and extraterrestrial 195 00:08:10,449 --> 00:08:13,839 life yes and to inform the 196 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:17,650 secretary-general about their findings 197 00:08:13,839 --> 00:08:21,759 and conclusions and in fact the original 198 00:08:17,649 --> 00:08:24,399 aim as you surely know was was not just 199 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:26,860 this mere invitation to interested 200 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:29,489 Member States but in fact the Prime 201 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:33,279 Minister of Grenada so Eric gairy had 202 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:36,639 wanted to establish a UFO study group at 203 00:08:33,279 --> 00:08:40,929 a United Nations level at the outerspace 204 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:43,598 committee and I made some research at 205 00:08:40,929 --> 00:08:46,839 the political archives of the German 206 00:08:43,599 --> 00:08:49,840 Foreign Office and I found documents 207 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,639 that show that this aim was actually 208 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,430 hindered by Germany's permanent mission 209 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:56,439 to the United Nations among others by 210 00:08:54,429 --> 00:08:58,719 the way oh yes well by the US and 211 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,760 Britain also were very opposed to Eric 212 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,759 Aries initiative but the journals as 213 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:05,799 well yeah Austria as well yeah and I 214 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:08,710 found for example I found a telegram 215 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:12,490 from November 28 1978 we're already 216 00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:16,030 talks about this upcoming decision and 217 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:19,389 it says Grenada has presented this 218 00:09:16,029 --> 00:09:21,850 resolution draft on UFOs at the Space 219 00:09:19,389 --> 00:09:23,590 Committee which proposes the 220 00:09:21,850 --> 00:09:25,389 establishment of an expert group which 221 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:27,460 is supposed to define the framework for 222 00:09:25,389 --> 00:09:29,080 UN studies about the UFO phenomenon 223 00:09:27,460 --> 00:09:31,900 under the supervision of the outerspace 224 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,910 committee and then they go quite apart 225 00:09:31,899 --> 00:09:36,220 from the wider implications of such 226 00:09:33,909 --> 00:09:36,699 resolution draft the reference to the 227 00:09:36,220 --> 00:09:39,100 outer 228 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:41,710 committee alone has its myths has its 229 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:44,050 misgivings as it would incur grenadiers 230 00:09:41,710 --> 00:09:46,090 desire to become a member of the outer 231 00:09:44,049 --> 00:09:47,979 space committee which would therefore be 232 00:09:46,090 --> 00:09:52,389 constantly occupied with the UFO 233 00:09:47,980 --> 00:09:55,680 question and then they said yeah and 234 00:09:52,389 --> 00:09:58,360 then they say this item will probably 235 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,250 finished be finished reading until the 236 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,740 end of the week and until then the USA 237 00:10:00,250 --> 00:10:05,019 and Austria will try to pursue it 238 00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:07,570 Grenada to withdraw its resolution draft 239 00:10:05,019 --> 00:10:10,000 and to accept a more general declaration 240 00:10:07,570 --> 00:10:12,700 which invites interested member states 241 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:17,169 to become a member of a non UN Committee 242 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:18,970 for the study of UFOs so that's that's 243 00:10:17,169 --> 00:10:21,569 an interesting point you see back even 244 00:10:18,970 --> 00:10:24,550 back in 1978 the Germans were already 245 00:10:21,570 --> 00:10:26,980 you know pretty firm on not allowing 246 00:10:24,549 --> 00:10:30,609 this subject on an on an international 247 00:10:26,980 --> 00:10:32,230 level to be discussed officially and the 248 00:10:30,610 --> 00:10:36,279 thing is you know always been wondering 249 00:10:32,230 --> 00:10:38,409 why is it you know because back then in 250 00:10:36,279 --> 00:10:40,569 the Cold War I mean the Germany was not 251 00:10:38,409 --> 00:10:45,039 really like the most outstanding most 252 00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:51,340 decisive capable superpower in the world 253 00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:53,019 to play on on the foreign policy right 254 00:10:51,340 --> 00:10:56,139 why were the Germans doing in 255 00:10:53,019 --> 00:10:58,240 international diploma mean you know 256 00:10:56,139 --> 00:10:59,949 major international relations at that 257 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,259 because I'm one might wonder yeah 258 00:10:59,950 --> 00:11:04,000 exactly and and even back then you know 259 00:11:02,259 --> 00:11:06,220 it was it was closely allied to the 260 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:11,440 other to the United States of course and 261 00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:14,139 the United States were kind of deciding 262 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,610 the direction where this was all going 263 00:11:14,139 --> 00:11:18,429 to go I mean there were those block 264 00:11:15,610 --> 00:11:21,730 States as usual you know the Warsaw Pact 265 00:11:18,429 --> 00:11:23,769 states and the NATO states and then 266 00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:25,659 there was some third party how do you 267 00:11:23,769 --> 00:11:27,819 call them at the United Nations level 268 00:11:25,659 --> 00:11:29,049 well there are no non non-aligned there 269 00:11:27,820 --> 00:11:31,570 were sometimes known as non-aligned 270 00:11:29,049 --> 00:11:34,359 States yes yeah yeah yeah so Germany 271 00:11:31,570 --> 00:11:37,390 already back then played along with the 272 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,860 Americans and the Western pact let's 273 00:11:37,389 --> 00:11:42,370 call it like that oh yeah yeah and it's 274 00:11:38,860 --> 00:11:45,879 a and it's interesting because in 275 00:11:42,370 --> 00:11:48,129 because this United Nations decision 276 00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:50,259 which invited Member States to conduct 277 00:11:48,129 --> 00:11:52,929 UFO research 278 00:11:50,259 --> 00:11:56,230 may not have been legally binding but 279 00:11:52,929 --> 00:11:57,759 still France even at that time you know 280 00:11:56,230 --> 00:12:00,430 more or less around the same time 281 00:11:57,759 --> 00:12:03,039 decided to conduct UFO research I mean 282 00:12:00,429 --> 00:12:05,889 they have this they have Minister of 283 00:12:03,039 --> 00:12:08,730 Defense in 1974 already saying that this 284 00:12:05,889 --> 00:12:12,240 would be an interesting subject to 285 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:14,440 generalize and study at the level of the 286 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:18,340 space 287 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,710 Santos pasyanti you know the the Space 288 00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:23,110 Research Center the National Space 289 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:24,910 Research Center and stuff so they 290 00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:27,820 obviously kind of followed this advice 291 00:12:24,909 --> 00:12:30,159 right and and Germany didn't and in fact 292 00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:32,379 when I started this whole thing that 293 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:33,819 like that the last official statement 294 00:12:32,379 --> 00:12:35,620 that you could get from that I could 295 00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:38,470 find from a German politician was from 296 00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:41,500 2008 by the then Minister of the 297 00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:44,170 Interior Wolfgang schäuble who's by the 298 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:46,929 way still in office in another office 299 00:12:44,169 --> 00:12:51,250 now but in another capacity but he's 300 00:12:46,929 --> 00:12:53,859 still active and he said in 2008 he said 301 00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:56,230 a federal authority dealing with alleged 302 00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:59,590 sightings of unknown flying objects is 303 00:12:56,230 --> 00:13:02,289 not known here that is how he how he 304 00:12:59,590 --> 00:13:04,360 said that and if you think about it 305 00:13:02,289 --> 00:13:07,000 being admit the Minister of the Interior 306 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:10,240 you know he should know whether there is 307 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,610 something or not whether think about it 308 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:15,340 Germany particularly during the Cold War 309 00:13:12,610 --> 00:13:18,399 so you know for listeners who may not 310 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:21,879 remember those days Hugh and I do by the 311 00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:24,250 way I spent one summer in East Germany 312 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:27,189 the DDR Deutsche Democratic Senate 313 00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:30,549 Republic back in nineteen 1986 314 00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:33,850 not long before it started to unravel I 315 00:13:30,549 --> 00:13:36,099 went back briefly in 1987 as well and I 316 00:13:33,850 --> 00:13:38,740 had I had friends who actually were 317 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:39,730 official East German dissidents who were 318 00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:42,100 being persecuted by the government 319 00:13:39,730 --> 00:13:44,409 that's a whole other story maybe we can 320 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:47,950 talk about that sometime but a little 321 00:13:44,409 --> 00:13:50,679 mini adventures yes yes my Germans has 322 00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:55,420 become just very bad in the intervening 323 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:57,299 years unfortunately very bad but I would 324 00:13:55,419 --> 00:13:59,979 just say if you think back to that 325 00:13:57,299 --> 00:14:02,049 period of time so you've got this Soviet 326 00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:02,620 Union and the Warsaw Pact nations as you 327 00:14:02,049 --> 00:14:05,079 mentioned you 328 00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:06,700 the Soviet allies Eastern Europe 329 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,030 basically and then you had Western 330 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:12,670 Europe Germany which was divided it was 331 00:14:10,029 --> 00:14:15,399 split between east and west was the 332 00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:20,019 center of the Cold War obviously and 333 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:22,509 then and and then you would think and in 334 00:14:20,019 --> 00:14:25,210 fact it's true that sightings of unknown 335 00:14:22,509 --> 00:14:27,789 objects over Germany would be very 336 00:14:25,210 --> 00:14:31,389 important and in fact we have a number 337 00:14:27,789 --> 00:14:33,189 of anecdotal reports the astronaut a 338 00:14:31,389 --> 00:14:36,220 u.s. astronaut Gordon Cooper talked 339 00:14:33,190 --> 00:14:39,690 about overflight of UFOs in Germany back 340 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:42,600 in the 1950s and there are these other 341 00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:47,080 reports that have come again and again 342 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:50,110 relating to very very dramatic UFO 343 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,420 sightings over Germany so clearly this 344 00:14:50,110 --> 00:14:54,909 is important and yet here we have a 345 00:14:52,419 --> 00:14:56,649 German Minister of the Interior in 2008 346 00:14:54,909 --> 00:14:59,949 saying nope there are no federal 347 00:14:56,649 --> 00:15:02,889 agencies under you know investigating 348 00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:06,129 unknown aircraft are you kidding me are 349 00:15:02,889 --> 00:15:09,009 you kidding me yeah you see that's 350 00:15:06,129 --> 00:15:10,659 exactly my my that was my strategy when 351 00:15:09,009 --> 00:15:13,509 I started working on this subject 352 00:15:10,659 --> 00:15:15,730 because how do you want to convince 353 00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:18,549 people that there is something to the 354 00:15:15,730 --> 00:15:21,370 subject of UFOs if there's so few people 355 00:15:18,549 --> 00:15:23,289 who've ever seen one and no one is 356 00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:24,870 saying anything officially so I compiled 357 00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:28,149 a whole list of 20 countries worldwide 358 00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:31,120 more than 20 countries now actually that 359 00:15:28,149 --> 00:15:33,549 have released military files on what 360 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:36,279 they've known and found out on about 361 00:15:33,549 --> 00:15:37,719 UFOs you know I mean most prominently of 362 00:15:36,279 --> 00:15:40,539 course the youth the British they have 363 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,610 released a tons of files of the French 364 00:15:40,539 --> 00:15:45,730 France also the French the Spanish were 365 00:15:42,610 --> 00:15:49,509 the first actually to back in their 366 00:15:45,730 --> 00:15:52,029 files yeah yeah yeah yeah so so so you 367 00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:54,899 know having all those at this list of 20 368 00:15:52,029 --> 00:15:57,220 countries around the world you know in 369 00:15:54,899 --> 00:15:59,769 your hand it's really difficult to deny 370 00:15:57,220 --> 00:16:02,470 for German authorities to say that this 371 00:15:59,769 --> 00:16:04,449 is a subject of interest to many all 372 00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:08,220 around right well not the Germans not 373 00:16:04,450 --> 00:16:14,200 and so so in it so in 2009 I started 374 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:15,190 another approach and in 2009 in fact I I 375 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,769 had 376 00:16:15,190 --> 00:16:19,360 - to have a member of the German 377 00:16:17,769 --> 00:16:22,289 Bundestag so that's the Federal 378 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:25,019 Parliament the highest German parliament 379 00:16:22,289 --> 00:16:29,409 to have her asked by a friend of mine 380 00:16:25,019 --> 00:16:31,389 about UFOs because he said now I'm doing 381 00:16:29,409 --> 00:16:35,289 this interview what could I ask her and 382 00:16:31,389 --> 00:16:36,759 I said ask her about this UN decision 33 383 00:16:35,289 --> 00:16:40,179 4 to 6 why this has never been 384 00:16:36,759 --> 00:16:42,759 implemented in Germany and and so he did 385 00:16:40,179 --> 00:16:44,679 and he went there in November 2009 he 386 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:46,509 one thing he asked her that question and 387 00:16:44,679 --> 00:16:48,578 she was completely speechless she didn't 388 00:16:46,509 --> 00:16:50,259 know what to say she said well I have no 389 00:16:48,578 --> 00:16:53,258 idea I mean she took it seriously you 390 00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:56,560 know but she was very very brave she 391 00:16:53,259 --> 00:16:59,769 took it seriously and she actually she 392 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:03,758 asked the the Scientific Research 393 00:16:59,769 --> 00:17:06,279 Service of the German Bundestag to draft 394 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:08,588 a report on why that UN decision has 395 00:17:06,279 --> 00:17:11,470 never been implemented and another one 396 00:17:08,588 --> 00:17:15,879 about the again just to remind people 397 00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:19,150 this decision is to initiate a a 398 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,669 government agency that would I believe 399 00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:24,519 receive and and perhaps report about 400 00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:26,980 report about UFO sightings right well 401 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:29,230 Gary wanted this decision invited Member 402 00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:30,759 States to Kentucky to conduct you for 403 00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:32,860 research for the national level and 404 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:34,269 she's in she's denied relations she's 405 00:17:32,859 --> 00:17:35,579 starting an inquiry as to why they 406 00:17:34,269 --> 00:17:38,710 hadn't done it that's amazing 407 00:17:35,579 --> 00:17:42,189 exactly and she did that and and and 408 00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:46,538 sure enough just a couple of weeks later 409 00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:49,090 I had a big envelope in my mailbox and I 410 00:17:46,538 --> 00:17:52,329 open it and it was a very nice letter 411 00:17:49,089 --> 00:17:54,459 she wrote and you know it was forwarded 412 00:17:52,329 --> 00:17:55,538 to me and and it was an interesting 413 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:58,509 study 414 00:17:55,538 --> 00:18:00,730 I mean besides of the complete lack of 415 00:17:58,509 --> 00:18:03,099 facts that I have to say though they I 416 00:18:00,730 --> 00:18:04,960 mean they quoted from Exopolitics 417 00:18:03,099 --> 00:18:07,990 websites for example they didn't even 418 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,579 have the original text of that UN 419 00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:11,220 decision they took it from the website 420 00:18:09,579 --> 00:18:15,399 from her politics 421 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:19,058 and they they also had you know just 422 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,980 complete meaningless information on what 423 00:18:19,058 --> 00:18:23,288 they don't know and they had a list of 424 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:26,500 TV shows dealing with UFOs is really 425 00:18:23,288 --> 00:18:27,868 really weird but the part Wade where it 426 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:30,788 goes about the 427 00:18:27,868 --> 00:18:32,978 United Nations decision they said well 428 00:18:30,788 --> 00:18:34,989 we didn't do it because we were not 429 00:18:32,979 --> 00:18:37,450 legally obliged to do so it is just an 430 00:18:34,989 --> 00:18:40,538 invitation we had the right not to do it 431 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:41,590 and also that was true and and and also 432 00:18:40,538 --> 00:18:43,929 they said and that was very interesting 433 00:18:41,589 --> 00:18:45,788 they said the fact that both Great 434 00:18:43,929 --> 00:18:47,590 Britain and France had been dealing with 435 00:18:45,788 --> 00:18:50,589 questions about the existence of UFOs 436 00:18:47,589 --> 00:18:52,628 and extraterrestrial life forms and have 437 00:18:50,589 --> 00:18:54,178 given up their secrecy to publish it 438 00:18:52,628 --> 00:18:56,678 even on the Internet 439 00:18:54,179 --> 00:18:58,330 suggests the assumption that German 440 00:18:56,679 --> 00:19:00,909 authorities or ministries have been 441 00:18:58,329 --> 00:19:03,278 dealing with that question as well so 442 00:19:00,909 --> 00:19:07,749 that was like the first time I had it 443 00:19:03,278 --> 00:19:10,950 blackened on paper in writing that was a 444 00:19:07,749 --> 00:19:13,569 complete opposite of the official German 445 00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:15,308 statement on UFOs right they're not 446 00:19:13,569 --> 00:19:18,308 interests and stuff and they here they 447 00:19:15,308 --> 00:19:20,739 go and say well probably they do have an 448 00:19:18,308 --> 00:19:22,839 interest and of course it didn't prove 449 00:19:20,739 --> 00:19:26,288 anything but where did that letter come 450 00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:28,628 from Robert was that from them research 451 00:19:26,288 --> 00:19:30,999 service that was the the authors were 452 00:19:28,628 --> 00:19:33,579 two scientists from the Scientific 453 00:19:30,999 --> 00:19:35,319 Research Service who said that so they 454 00:19:33,579 --> 00:19:37,388 were essentially speculating but it's a 455 00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:38,979 reasonable speculation had it was 456 00:19:37,388 --> 00:19:40,918 reasonable and they and they went on to 457 00:19:38,979 --> 00:19:43,210 say they went on to state that 458 00:19:40,919 --> 00:19:46,690 especially at the times of the Cold War 459 00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:49,389 where where there's exactly what you 460 00:19:46,690 --> 00:19:52,599 just said before where you had to watch 461 00:19:49,388 --> 00:19:54,969 out for possible enemy drones or or spy 462 00:19:52,598 --> 00:19:58,598 planes and stuff of the political enemy 463 00:19:54,970 --> 00:20:01,499 you know it is highly likely that German 464 00:19:58,598 --> 00:20:05,108 authorities have been dealing with 465 00:20:01,499 --> 00:20:07,569 questions of unidentified flying objects 466 00:20:05,108 --> 00:20:09,908 especially in Germany where which was 467 00:20:07,569 --> 00:20:13,089 the epicenter of the Cold War you know 468 00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:17,320 so so so that was really interesting 469 00:20:13,089 --> 00:20:19,118 I made that public in 2010 and then what 470 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:24,069 followed was a whole episode a whole 471 00:20:19,118 --> 00:20:25,928 series of legal proceedings to get this 472 00:20:24,069 --> 00:20:27,819 report in to the public because even 473 00:20:25,929 --> 00:20:29,499 though I was able to quote from it I was 474 00:20:27,819 --> 00:20:32,259 not able to publish it oh really I 475 00:20:29,499 --> 00:20:34,358 didn't I didn't no of course I didn't I 476 00:20:32,259 --> 00:20:37,659 didn't try to I didn't try to publish it 477 00:20:34,358 --> 00:20:40,639 in its entirety but there was a citizen 478 00:20:37,659 --> 00:20:42,890 from Berlin Frank right in my own 479 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,320 who's my hero and you will soon see why 480 00:20:42,890 --> 00:20:48,500 he is my hero he wanted to see that 481 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:50,629 study as well he filed an FOI a request 482 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:53,150 according to the German Freedom of 483 00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:56,180 Information Act and he was denied access 484 00:20:53,150 --> 00:21:01,070 because the Freedom of Information Act 485 00:20:56,180 --> 00:21:02,570 in Germany it's only from 2006 and they 486 00:21:01,069 --> 00:21:04,069 said it would not be applicable to 487 00:21:02,569 --> 00:21:05,750 studies written by the scientific 488 00:21:04,069 --> 00:21:08,960 research service of the German Bundestag 489 00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:11,569 because because everything that's 490 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,970 related to parliamentary actions and and 491 00:21:11,569 --> 00:21:16,419 and work would not be included in that 492 00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:19,750 day so they are impervious to FOI 493 00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:23,360 requests the the german parliament 494 00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:26,450 exactly and not not not only the 495 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,669 parliament but specifically all the 496 00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:30,769 studies undertaken by the scientific 497 00:21:28,670 --> 00:21:32,900 research service of the Bundestag what 498 00:21:30,769 --> 00:21:35,599 may that would be like in America to say 499 00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:37,490 that US Congress is immune from the 500 00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:38,689 Freedom of Information Act that's what 501 00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:40,490 this sounds like that's in court but 502 00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:42,259 that that's the fact here in Germany 503 00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:44,420 it's still the fact that the thing is 504 00:21:42,259 --> 00:21:49,910 this scientific service of the Bundestag 505 00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:53,150 is there to inform deputies of the of 506 00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:56,870 the Parliament in their daily work if 507 00:21:53,150 --> 00:22:04,640 they have a question a specific question 508 00:21:56,869 --> 00:22:11,169 on let's say wars against international 509 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:11,170 law undertaken by by the United States 510 00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:16,340 you know they they can go there and ask 511 00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:18,529 and ask a few questions and and have 512 00:22:16,339 --> 00:22:22,909 them write this these kinds of studies 513 00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:25,670 and and this is like the foundation for 514 00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:29,470 their work they are doing in for them in 515 00:22:25,670 --> 00:22:32,300 their capacity as the as the as the 516 00:22:29,470 --> 00:22:35,720 parliamentarians you know as those who 517 00:22:32,299 --> 00:22:38,210 take decisions in our names so it should 518 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,519 be open to the public what's written in 519 00:22:38,210 --> 00:22:43,549 those studies right it should be should 520 00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:45,829 be public so he sued he was denied 521 00:22:43,549 --> 00:22:48,849 access he sued the German government and 522 00:22:45,829 --> 00:22:50,990 in December 2011 the first instance 523 00:22:48,849 --> 00:22:53,089 Administrative Court in Berlin approved 524 00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:54,559 his request and ordered the Bundestag to 525 00:22:53,089 --> 00:22:56,000 release that study 526 00:22:54,559 --> 00:23:00,019 but of course the Buddhist art a lot 527 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,420 launched an appeal and in November 2013 528 00:23:00,019 --> 00:23:03,650 the next instance Court the higher 529 00:23:02,420 --> 00:23:04,820 Administrative Court of 530 00:23:03,650 --> 00:23:08,240 berlin-brandenburg 531 00:23:04,819 --> 00:23:11,419 revoked that decision and and said no 532 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,759 its parliamentary thing doesn't you know 533 00:23:11,420 --> 00:23:16,400 fo Freedom of Information Act doesn't 534 00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:19,190 apply here go figure 535 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,810 you know and and Frank Wright Amaya you 536 00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:23,570 know he really struggled to lodge an 537 00:23:20,809 --> 00:23:26,029 appeal for just for lack of funding you 538 00:23:23,569 --> 00:23:28,039 know because he was just this this one 539 00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:30,139 right may I just I just want to make 540 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:31,490 sure so this report that he's trying to 541 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:33,680 get out this is the report that had 542 00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:35,750 already been sent to you do from your 543 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,500 direct request so you had already been 544 00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:42,049 able to read the report and from what it 545 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,859 sounded like to me it's it's not even a 546 00:23:42,049 --> 00:23:45,710 smoking gun 547 00:23:42,859 --> 00:23:50,149 it's an eleven exactly it's simply a 548 00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:53,590 reply to your request and a speculation 549 00:23:50,150 --> 00:23:56,300 that the German military and government 550 00:23:53,589 --> 00:23:57,439 might have dealt with the UFO phenomenon 551 00:23:56,299 --> 00:23:59,720 as the British and the French yeah I 552 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,130 mean that's really all that that was 553 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,319 said in there right is that is that 554 00:24:01,130 --> 00:24:04,610 correct that's that's correct and they 555 00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:07,549 are not letting you head out there so 556 00:24:04,609 --> 00:24:09,559 it's that that little tepid statement 557 00:24:07,549 --> 00:24:11,240 the German government is is fighting 558 00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:13,819 tooth and nail to prevent from coming 559 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,589 out that's amazing yeah and just to give 560 00:24:13,819 --> 00:24:17,000 you an idea about the German mindset 561 00:24:15,589 --> 00:24:19,699 when it comes to freedom of information 562 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,579 versus government secrecy 563 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:25,600 you know because up until 2006 we had 564 00:24:22,579 --> 00:24:27,799 the principle of of administration 565 00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:32,059 secrecy that's how they called it you 566 00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:35,210 know this is amps crimeless government 567 00:24:32,059 --> 00:24:37,879 secrecy or administrative secrecy you do 568 00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:39,860 - you don't need to know you know go 569 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,750 home there's nothing to see here we take 570 00:24:39,859 --> 00:24:43,549 our decisions based upon our own 571 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:45,529 information and you're not supposed to 572 00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:48,139 know what we know that's that's what it 573 00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:51,049 was like until 2006 of course there were 574 00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:52,880 exceptions for journalists you know even 575 00:24:51,049 --> 00:24:55,159 back then when I was still working for 576 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,740 television you know okay you you could 577 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,870 go to some authority and and show them 578 00:24:57,740 --> 00:25:02,809 their press car your press card say look 579 00:24:59,869 --> 00:25:05,000 I have the right under the press the 580 00:25:02,809 --> 00:25:07,490 press act or I don't know how you called 581 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,029 in English to give me information but 582 00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:10,039 still 583 00:25:08,029 --> 00:25:12,109 at that time you know it really depended 584 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,329 on whether they liked you or not or 585 00:25:12,109 --> 00:25:16,279 whether what you depended on what you 586 00:25:14,329 --> 00:25:18,379 wanted to know and they were not really 587 00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:20,569 you know that have always been ways to 588 00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:22,790 deny you access to official information 589 00:25:20,569 --> 00:25:24,980 robbery we have about a minute before we 590 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:26,420 have to have a break we can come back to 591 00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:29,210 this after the break but how did this 592 00:25:26,420 --> 00:25:33,289 resolve can you say that quickly yes 593 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:35,509 in June 2015 the highest administrative 594 00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:38,539 court in Germany finally decided that 595 00:25:35,509 --> 00:25:40,190 the studies are to be released under the 596 00:25:38,539 --> 00:25:42,230 German Freedom of Information Act and 597 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:45,140 this was a real milestone because now 598 00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:47,420 all the information from those kinds of 599 00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:49,580 studies are available to the German 600 00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:51,710 public and not only in terms of UFOs but 601 00:25:49,579 --> 00:25:53,179 all other kinds of interesting and 602 00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:57,410 important stuff so this will actually 603 00:25:53,180 --> 00:26:00,310 open up a range of potential UFO reports 604 00:25:57,410 --> 00:26:03,560 is what this sounds like is that exactly 605 00:26:00,309 --> 00:26:05,059 not exactly UFO reports because the 606 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:10,279 scientific service doesn't deal with 607 00:26:05,059 --> 00:26:12,649 UFOs normally oh I just made a mr. edit 608 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:15,649 that I just dropped something okay so 609 00:26:12,650 --> 00:26:19,250 not that but perhaps perhaps there may 610 00:26:15,650 --> 00:26:21,050 be a window opening in some manner we 611 00:26:19,250 --> 00:26:23,750 you know remember the the the air 612 00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:25,220 strikes recently from the US UK and 613 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:27,380 France on Syria 614 00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:30,380 where German Chancellor she said well 615 00:26:27,380 --> 00:26:34,850 the the United Nations Security Council 616 00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:38,150 was obviously too occupied in this 617 00:26:34,849 --> 00:26:40,459 question and could not cooperate in this 618 00:26:38,150 --> 00:26:43,250 question and therefore it was important 619 00:26:40,460 --> 00:26:44,870 for the for those countries to take 620 00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:47,509 responsibility to bear that 621 00:26:44,869 --> 00:26:50,569 responsibility to attack Syria and in 622 00:26:47,509 --> 00:26:52,759 fact the the scientific service of the 623 00:26:50,569 --> 00:26:54,559 Bundestag that clearly in in one of 624 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:57,410 those studies no this is against 625 00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:59,960 international law this is just illegal 626 00:26:57,410 --> 00:27:01,580 you know and and this is all we only 627 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:04,370 know this now because of the brave 628 00:27:01,579 --> 00:27:07,009 action of Frank I Tamiya who sued the 629 00:27:04,369 --> 00:27:08,449 German government fascinating and is 630 00:27:07,009 --> 00:27:10,460 something that you have your part to 631 00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:13,100 play in that's actually actually I I 632 00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:16,910 adore him in crowdfunding and helping 633 00:27:13,099 --> 00:27:19,639 him to find funds for his appeal and and 634 00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:21,710 your your initial inquiry into the UFO 635 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,170 situation also sparked it 636 00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:27,259 yeah in a way I helped to write your 637 00:27:24,170 --> 00:27:28,840 history and Jeremy dancer listen we're 638 00:27:27,259 --> 00:27:31,879 gonna take a very quick break Robert and 639 00:27:28,839 --> 00:27:33,379 so we're on this is Richard Dolan I'm 640 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,350 here with Robert Fleischer journalist 641 00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:38,240 German journalist with a great deal of 642 00:27:36,349 --> 00:27:40,909 background in the UFO subject and we're 643 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,700 going to return to discuss some UFO 644 00:27:40,910 --> 00:27:46,160 cases as well as some other government 645 00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:48,799 actions I believe so stick around we'll 646 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,330 be right back after this we're back I'm 647 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:53,450 Richard Dolan here with Robert Fleischer 648 00:27:50,329 --> 00:27:55,970 of Germany and Robert so just to make 649 00:27:53,450 --> 00:28:00,830 sure we've got the that last segment we 650 00:27:55,970 --> 00:28:05,750 kind of nailed down you were seeking to 651 00:28:00,829 --> 00:28:07,730 obtain information that was it was a 652 00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:11,390 letter that arrived to you saying that 653 00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:12,860 Germany may have also had his own UFO 654 00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:15,860 reports and it was impossible to get 655 00:28:12,859 --> 00:28:17,899 that published so what's the status of 656 00:28:15,859 --> 00:28:20,869 what can work in German citizens know 657 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:23,750 now what could be published on on the 658 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:25,759 web in Germany as a result of this well 659 00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:27,829 it's interesting the original assumption 660 00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:30,230 from the the authors of the study 661 00:28:27,829 --> 00:28:34,009 undertaken by the scientific service of 662 00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:36,049 the Bundestag was had been that German 663 00:28:34,009 --> 00:28:38,029 authorities may have very well had an 664 00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:41,329 interest in the UFO subject just like 665 00:28:38,029 --> 00:28:43,279 France and Great Britain and it was only 666 00:28:41,329 --> 00:28:46,879 a couple of years I think two years 667 00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:49,970 after the the last Court decision about 668 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,940 this the release of that study that it 669 00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:55,670 became known that the German Foreign 670 00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:58,789 Intelligence Agency B and D Bundestag in 671 00:28:55,670 --> 00:29:01,610 Dean's had been researching UFO 672 00:28:58,789 --> 00:29:03,859 sightings at the inner German border for 673 00:29:01,609 --> 00:29:06,589 years actually the inner German border 674 00:29:03,859 --> 00:29:08,299 between East Germany and West Germany 675 00:29:06,589 --> 00:29:10,099 where West Germany was of course 676 00:29:08,299 --> 00:29:12,319 controlled by the Americans the British 677 00:29:10,099 --> 00:29:16,579 the France and the French and others and 678 00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:20,359 East Germany by the Soviets and this 679 00:29:16,579 --> 00:29:22,519 inner German border was heavily guarded 680 00:29:20,359 --> 00:29:25,699 it was a death strip that marked the 681 00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:28,160 front line of the Cold War yes no it it 682 00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:31,970 separated NATO allies from those of the 683 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:33,680 Warsaw Pact and it was not only the 684 00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:35,539 military that kept an eye on the border 685 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:40,610 but also this foreign secrets 686 00:29:35,539 --> 00:29:43,250 from 1982 to 1986 the BND collected and 687 00:29:40,609 --> 00:29:45,349 analyzed witness reports on unidentified 688 00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:48,619 flying objects along the inner German 689 00:29:45,349 --> 00:29:50,719 border so I'm sure much more than 1982 690 00:29:48,619 --> 00:29:52,399 to 86 but even so you have records 691 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,769 records that on that period are 692 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,860 available yes that's at least what is 693 00:29:54,769 --> 00:30:00,829 become known there's a set of documents 694 00:29:57,859 --> 00:30:06,049 that that is available at the National 695 00:30:00,829 --> 00:30:09,409 Archive of Germany in Koblenz and in 696 00:30:06,049 --> 00:30:12,970 fact it is officially it is still closed 697 00:30:09,410 --> 00:30:15,140 it is still unavailable and parts of it 698 00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:19,250 but in fact you know there's like a 699 00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:21,530 special regulation saying that if a 700 00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:23,900 researcher like a scientist or so a 701 00:30:21,529 --> 00:30:26,509 historian applies for access to certain 702 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:29,900 parts of that document then it will be 703 00:30:26,509 --> 00:30:32,240 reviewed the the classification will be 704 00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:34,130 reviewed and then it is also it will 705 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,049 also be available to other interested 706 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:39,620 researchers or journalists I'm not sure 707 00:30:36,049 --> 00:30:41,899 if it's so they they decide they will 708 00:30:39,619 --> 00:30:44,509 decide who has access to it it sounds 709 00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:47,390 like yes yes in fact I have it here in 710 00:30:44,509 --> 00:30:49,940 front of me and and there it says that 711 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:53,140 there are certain pages of it that are 712 00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:59,570 still not to be released until the Year 713 00:30:53,140 --> 00:31:01,910 2063 so this is from the 1980s yes and 714 00:30:59,569 --> 00:31:04,369 they are that's an entire human lifetime 715 00:31:01,910 --> 00:31:06,830 so well what what so you have these 716 00:31:04,369 --> 00:31:08,809 papers and can you describe them what's 717 00:31:06,829 --> 00:31:11,299 in them what makes what makes them 718 00:31:08,809 --> 00:31:13,279 interesting what makes them interesting 719 00:31:11,299 --> 00:31:16,309 well first of all it's 70 so it's not so 720 00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:18,799 big you know it's only set 67 pages it's 721 00:31:16,309 --> 00:31:23,119 mainly sightings reports and analysis by 722 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:25,909 the general Bundestag deans and the 723 00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:28,250 majority of the files or the majority of 724 00:31:25,910 --> 00:31:30,800 the cases contained in this file are 725 00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:33,259 conventionally explainable like it's 726 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:36,619 just conventional cases but there are 727 00:31:33,259 --> 00:31:38,960 also cases that remained unidentified 728 00:31:36,619 --> 00:31:41,989 even for the intelligence analysts and 729 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:45,680 one of these cases occurred at the on 730 00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:48,259 the baltic island of femen in 1986 it 731 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,400 was early in the morning of August 26 732 00:31:48,259 --> 00:31:51,920 when three border 733 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,230 observed a bright lit object from the 734 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,960 window of their office that slowly 735 00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:59,539 approached the put garden fairy station 736 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,600 and stopped in midair at an altitude of 737 00:31:59,539 --> 00:32:05,359 around 50 to 60 meters and the witnesses 738 00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:08,240 didn't hear any flight noise noises only 739 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:10,399 a relatively quiet humming noise the 740 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,950 shape color and size could not be 741 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,950 determined by the border guards because 742 00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:18,590 the because it had a radiant dazzling 743 00:32:15,950 --> 00:32:20,870 illumination as they said and after a 744 00:32:18,589 --> 00:32:22,730 while the object floated further 745 00:32:20,869 --> 00:32:26,529 eastwards at the same height and 746 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:28,700 disappeared and the bundestag Dienst 747 00:32:26,529 --> 00:32:32,240 investigated this case they questioned 748 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:34,970 they interviewed the witnesses but their 749 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:38,509 search was unsuccessful the sighted 750 00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:40,490 object remained unidentified and this is 751 00:32:38,509 --> 00:32:43,129 just one of those cases that they have 752 00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:46,400 in that they have investigated this is 753 00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:53,570 over over the Baltic Sea in late August 754 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:55,790 of 1986 a bright object over that that 755 00:32:53,569 --> 00:32:57,859 moved toward the east as it departed but 756 00:32:55,789 --> 00:32:59,599 it fairy station yeah it did not move in 757 00:32:57,859 --> 00:33:04,308 any kind of conventional manner I I 758 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:07,129 gather yeah yeah well it it it's didn't 759 00:33:04,308 --> 00:33:09,558 have erratic maneuvers or anything you 760 00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:11,600 know there's nothing of this described 761 00:33:09,558 --> 00:33:13,428 in the report it's just that the shape 762 00:33:11,599 --> 00:33:15,409 color and size and it you know it just 763 00:33:13,429 --> 00:33:17,840 didn't match anything conventional and 764 00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:21,050 this is exactly the reason why the PMD 765 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:23,359 was investigating such UFO reports 766 00:33:21,049 --> 00:33:24,919 because of course as the office of the 767 00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:26,959 scientific service of the Bundestag it 768 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:30,230 also pointed out they were looking for 769 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:34,910 potential enemy spy drones or enemy 770 00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:37,220 craft or anything unusual at the around 771 00:33:34,910 --> 00:33:39,230 the borders of West Germany because it 772 00:33:37,220 --> 00:33:41,240 could be the Soviets you know trying to 773 00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:43,630 find out something that they weren't 774 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,490 supposed to know you know there so 775 00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:50,600 what's also interesting that in this B 776 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:52,519 and D UFO file as we call it it you know 777 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:54,949 it really documents how the BMD 778 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:56,929 systematically conducted UFO research 779 00:33:54,950 --> 00:34:00,289 for years and it also contains a 780 00:33:56,929 --> 00:34:02,780 handwritten note which says please 781 00:34:00,289 --> 00:34:06,139 create a UFO process 782 00:34:02,779 --> 00:34:08,148 or please start a UFO process and one of 783 00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:10,579 its just a handwritten note beside and 784 00:34:08,148 --> 00:34:12,829 one of those cases you know and that 785 00:34:10,579 --> 00:34:15,019 really made us think in fact it was 786 00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:17,449 andreas moolah a friend and colleague of 787 00:34:15,019 --> 00:34:19,039 mine who's also journalist from Kansas 788 00:34:17,449 --> 00:34:23,210 and shaft actor head it's like fringe 789 00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:25,699 science Muse or something he had first 790 00:34:23,210 --> 00:34:28,010 access to that to that file and he said 791 00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:31,189 you know it's really clear that you know 792 00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:33,860 that term UFO was used across the whole 793 00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:37,070 document every everyone knew what a UFO 794 00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:39,349 process was at that time so you know the 795 00:34:37,070 --> 00:34:41,840 the assumption that unexplained aerial 796 00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:44,659 phenomena may not have been called UFO 797 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:47,600 or something may just be wrong it they 798 00:34:44,659 --> 00:34:49,519 just they plainly called it UFO the 799 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:52,190 Germans are using that phrase even 800 00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:54,050 though that's an American acronym yeah 801 00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:56,240 well in Germany you know you would say 802 00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:58,460 either defeats you at this freakin this 803 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,409 object or only piquant as freakin this 804 00:34:58,460 --> 00:35:02,329 object so it's also it also comes to 805 00:35:00,409 --> 00:35:05,449 your abbreviation like this yeah so okay 806 00:35:02,329 --> 00:35:07,460 so but what's interesting you know we 807 00:35:05,449 --> 00:35:09,799 don't know what that UFO process 808 00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:12,110 consists of what what is it is it is it 809 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,180 really just the collection and analysis 810 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:16,490 of those sightings reports or did they 811 00:35:14,179 --> 00:35:18,980 are there any other things I mean there 812 00:35:16,489 --> 00:35:22,939 are lots of pages blacked out or just 813 00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:25,579 missing in that in that file here so we 814 00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:29,750 don't we still don't know the real 815 00:35:25,579 --> 00:35:32,690 extent and an scope of that project that 816 00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:34,550 the B and D was what's doing there there 817 00:35:32,690 --> 00:35:37,039 actually were a number of interesting 818 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:40,280 German cases from around that time I 819 00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:42,019 recall and I'm sure you recall this the 820 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,480 German researcher he's not doing much 821 00:35:42,019 --> 00:35:46,909 anymore but Michael Hess Aman I know 822 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,880 promoted a number of there was a UFO 823 00:35:46,909 --> 00:35:51,829 photograph that he promoted from around 824 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:55,039 that time in the 1980s and I'm trying to 825 00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:57,289 recall the exact year on it I have it in 826 00:35:55,039 --> 00:36:00,380 my own files you might remember it's a 827 00:35:57,289 --> 00:36:04,639 photograph there's a spring a bell for 828 00:36:00,380 --> 00:36:08,090 you no no I'm sorry I wish I had this 829 00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:10,309 anyway I find it after we're done 830 00:36:08,090 --> 00:36:11,990 interviewing I'm sure but there there 831 00:36:10,309 --> 00:36:14,449 are a number of these cases that were 832 00:36:11,989 --> 00:36:16,709 out there but I'm assuming like none of 833 00:36:14,449 --> 00:36:19,558 none of those appear in the B 834 00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:21,539 the files that you're referring to no in 835 00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:25,230 fact of the case that I just mentioned 836 00:36:21,539 --> 00:36:28,880 is like most interesting there are other 837 00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:32,159 cases like here for example there's a 838 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:37,380 there's a they say possible drone and 839 00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:39,210 that's in 1983 I think and about drum 840 00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:42,890 and then in the early 80s interesting 841 00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:45,769 they used the word drone and they say 842 00:36:42,889 --> 00:36:48,868 what's the exact date here I can't see 843 00:36:45,769 --> 00:36:53,190 well it's from the 80s and yes and and 844 00:36:48,869 --> 00:36:55,858 they and they go traveler reported 845 00:36:53,190 --> 00:37:00,980 following that between three o'clock and 846 00:36:55,858 --> 00:37:06,199 and and quarter past three p.m. he went 847 00:37:00,980 --> 00:37:09,480 by car from Berlin West to a Hamburg and 848 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:13,879 he saw a fly like an aircraft or 849 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:17,608 something that was that had stabilizers 850 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:21,000 at its tail and and it was it looked 851 00:37:17,608 --> 00:37:23,400 very smooth and it had a dark contrail 852 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,280 behind it and you see so this doesn't 853 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,680 doesn't sound like a conventional 854 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,530 conventional I mean this sounds like 855 00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:34,529 conventional technology like a what we 856 00:37:31,530 --> 00:37:37,769 would call a real UFOs I didn't know and 857 00:37:34,530 --> 00:37:39,900 you know and then he goes that he goes 858 00:37:37,769 --> 00:37:45,469 on to state that after thirty seconds 859 00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:50,338 later he saw two modern air jets that 860 00:37:45,469 --> 00:37:52,500 follow that object yeah so so it is you 861 00:37:50,338 --> 00:37:56,429 know many many stuff like that is 862 00:37:52,500 --> 00:38:00,030 contained in the file from the travelers 863 00:37:56,429 --> 00:38:02,669 from I'm sorry I would think that there 864 00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:04,559 are definitely ways to go through this 865 00:38:02,670 --> 00:38:06,809 and I'm sure you and other German 866 00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:08,579 researchers have talked about this I 867 00:38:06,809 --> 00:38:10,260 want to come back to the BMD files if 868 00:38:08,579 --> 00:38:12,900 there's anything else there but so for 869 00:38:10,260 --> 00:38:16,069 example remember in the spring of 1990 870 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:18,900 over Belgium there were the famous 871 00:38:16,068 --> 00:38:20,789 sightings that the the Royal Belgian Air 872 00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:24,059 Force talked about but some of those UFO 873 00:38:20,789 --> 00:38:26,759 sightings I believe were in part over 874 00:38:24,059 --> 00:38:29,010 the border in Germany northwestern 875 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:32,370 Germany if I'm not mistaken 876 00:38:29,010 --> 00:38:36,320 so there yep there were I mean and it 877 00:38:32,369 --> 00:38:39,150 does happen and I'm just hoping one day 878 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,640 there might be a crowbar to pry open 879 00:38:39,150 --> 00:38:43,820 these records so maybe someone can 880 00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:46,319 petition the German government for its 881 00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:49,470 response to that night that's a late 882 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,680 March of 1919 do you know what I mean 883 00:38:49,469 --> 00:38:54,899 like there must be other examples of of 884 00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:58,889 German government or German military 885 00:38:54,900 --> 00:39:01,200 response to these UFOs absolutely and if 886 00:38:58,889 --> 00:39:03,420 you think about it like the way the 887 00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:06,509 German or the Belgian military reacted 888 00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:09,329 to that sightings they even send they 889 00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:11,700 even scramble jets and stuff you know so 890 00:39:09,329 --> 00:39:13,440 it's it for me it's just difficult to 891 00:39:11,699 --> 00:39:15,989 imagine the German military wouldn't be 892 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,940 interested in this kind of occurrences 893 00:39:15,989 --> 00:39:21,359 in their neighboring country just in the 894 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:24,329 bordering region - to Germany that's 895 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:28,099 it's but so far I haven't I don't know 896 00:39:24,329 --> 00:39:28,099 of any German military document 897 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:34,289 detailing any anything of use about this 898 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,830 and that from that time it's really 899 00:39:34,289 --> 00:39:37,469 difficult 900 00:39:34,829 --> 00:39:39,299 what about like I'm sorry German 901 00:39:37,469 --> 00:39:41,309 newspapers magazines independent 902 00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:44,940 researchers in addition to yourself 903 00:39:41,309 --> 00:39:49,049 are they compiling a list of cases that 904 00:39:44,940 --> 00:39:51,119 that Germans can you know have a list of 905 00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:53,340 such thing well that's that's an 906 00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:56,489 interesting interesting story because in 907 00:39:53,340 --> 00:40:00,539 back in the 1990s I would say the UFO 908 00:39:56,489 --> 00:40:03,659 subject was more prominent in the media 909 00:40:00,539 --> 00:40:05,849 than it is now in Germany in the 1990s 910 00:40:03,659 --> 00:40:08,159 especially I mean the Belgian wave was 911 00:40:05,849 --> 00:40:11,579 you know didn't pass unnoticed and 912 00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:15,269 German media and there was a big news TV 913 00:40:11,579 --> 00:40:19,440 network RTL that still exists today 914 00:40:15,269 --> 00:40:21,360 it's from Luxembourg originally and and 915 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,980 so that's exactly the region where this 916 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,070 more or less the region where this all 917 00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:27,929 took place so Luxembourg it's it's this 918 00:40:26,070 --> 00:40:31,530 corner between the Netherlands Belgium 919 00:40:27,929 --> 00:40:36,239 Germany you know and and they send they 920 00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:39,090 send a reporter - to Belgium and he 921 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:42,629 interviewed the people and also the Jean 922 00:40:39,090 --> 00:40:46,500 Dom how do you say Jean Dominic 923 00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:49,140 police police military police the 924 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:51,570 military policemen who watched that 925 00:40:49,139 --> 00:40:53,879 object and they and he went with them 926 00:40:51,570 --> 00:40:56,130 in their police car and they described 927 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,349 to him in front of the camera how how 928 00:40:56,130 --> 00:41:02,220 they saw this big triangular shaped 929 00:40:58,349 --> 00:41:04,259 object that hovered silently just a 930 00:41:02,219 --> 00:41:06,839 hundred meters away to their left-hand 931 00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:09,390 side over a field and they followed it 932 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:12,300 it was completely noiseless you know 933 00:41:09,389 --> 00:41:14,809 this is really strange to see that to 934 00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:19,289 see this TV report it's become quite 935 00:41:14,809 --> 00:41:21,659 popular even you know now if you look at 936 00:41:19,289 --> 00:41:23,849 it because it's like news from another 937 00:41:21,659 --> 00:41:26,429 dimension or another world if you 938 00:41:23,849 --> 00:41:28,710 compare like the seriousness and and the 939 00:41:26,429 --> 00:41:32,489 way how they how they report on this 940 00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:34,559 police UFO sighting back then and how 941 00:41:32,489 --> 00:41:38,729 they do it now you know it's just such 942 00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:41,519 an huge difference because memories that 943 00:41:38,730 --> 00:41:45,260 case was from sometime during the 1990s 944 00:41:41,519 --> 00:41:48,179 different 1990s yes yes and so an german 945 00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:49,710 production that was taking this UFO 946 00:41:48,179 --> 00:41:52,589 subject very very seriously 947 00:41:49,710 --> 00:41:54,929 unlike yes it was just on the news it 948 00:41:52,590 --> 00:41:57,420 was just like a three or four minute TV 949 00:41:54,929 --> 00:42:01,079 news report you know it was not not even 950 00:41:57,420 --> 00:42:02,789 a special special report or something 951 00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:05,940 was just on the news you know at that 952 00:42:02,789 --> 00:42:09,000 time and nowadays if you read about the 953 00:42:05,940 --> 00:42:12,960 Belgium UFO wave you read something like 954 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:15,750 well allegedly one night something was 955 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,300 seen by a couple of people maybe they 956 00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:20,820 drank too much and stuff you know and 957 00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:22,620 and they just come yeah they're just 958 00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:25,289 completely ignore the facts that this 959 00:42:22,619 --> 00:42:26,819 lasted more than a year the Belgian UFO 960 00:42:25,289 --> 00:42:29,420 wave and it was seen by hundreds of 961 00:42:26,820 --> 00:42:31,470 people and and the Belgian military 962 00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:34,800 scrambled jets and everything you know 963 00:42:31,469 --> 00:42:37,500 they just completely ignore the those 964 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:40,140 facts many Belgians on these waters as 965 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:43,349 well in fact some of the earliest very 966 00:42:40,139 --> 00:42:45,659 excellent witnesses to these triangular 967 00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:48,690 objects that were very clearly defined 968 00:42:45,659 --> 00:42:51,929 and would come extremely low hover 969 00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:52,639 silently I mean unlike anything that 970 00:42:51,929 --> 00:42:55,369 anyone 971 00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:57,409 had really ever seen yeah yeah you know 972 00:42:55,369 --> 00:42:59,509 if I'd always been suspecting that the 973 00:42:57,409 --> 00:43:02,299 German government actually knows morons 974 00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:06,590 on the subject and they err then they 975 00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:08,780 would actually affirm and I've tried 976 00:43:06,590 --> 00:43:11,840 I've made several attempts to find out 977 00:43:08,780 --> 00:43:13,610 more and if you'd like I can I can tell 978 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,370 you it a little bit about this yes I'd 979 00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:17,930 love time but because the question had 980 00:43:16,369 --> 00:43:19,909 always been if there is a German 981 00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:23,029 authority who would be responsible for 982 00:43:19,909 --> 00:43:26,539 UFO sightings reports and it turns out 983 00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:30,860 that in December 2011 there was the head 984 00:43:26,539 --> 00:43:33,349 of a German UFO Association that made 985 00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:35,360 enquiries to several ministries both on 986 00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:37,549 a national and on a local level because 987 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,680 we have the federal the federal 988 00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:41,330 government which is like the federal 989 00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:43,429 government of the United States and then 990 00:43:41,329 --> 00:43:46,519 we have federal States which is like 991 00:43:43,429 --> 00:43:50,690 United States but like you know yes and 992 00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:51,949 and and so in December 2011 the Ministry 993 00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:53,659 of the Interior of North 994 00:43:51,949 --> 00:43:56,509 rhine-westphalia that's one of those 995 00:43:53,659 --> 00:43:59,210 federal States confirmed that the police 996 00:43:56,510 --> 00:44:01,070 forwards reports an unexplained aerial 997 00:43:59,210 --> 00:44:04,119 phenomena when they are related to 998 00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:06,920 airspace security issues to a so called 999 00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:12,019 national situation and command center 1000 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:14,269 for a air safety NLF set that's i not 1001 00:44:12,019 --> 00:44:16,190 not a combined air operations center in 1002 00:44:14,269 --> 00:44:19,190 north rhine-westphalia close to the 1003 00:44:16,190 --> 00:44:21,470 dutch border and this was also confirmed 1004 00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:25,039 in march 2012 by a spokesperson of the 1005 00:44:21,469 --> 00:44:27,230 police and by others also and there 1006 00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:30,079 another friend of mine who has a 1007 00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:32,690 magazine in switzerland he made further 1008 00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:35,420 enquiries and he found out that he was 1009 00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:37,340 informed that there's a confidential 1010 00:44:35,420 --> 00:44:39,440 agreement between the German federal 1011 00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:42,230 government and the federals individual 1012 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:46,909 federal states of Germany but details of 1013 00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:48,920 that procedure are well are not public 1014 00:44:46,909 --> 00:44:51,920 are not open to the public accessible to 1015 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:54,170 the public so there is supposedly that a 1016 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,019 certain confidential agreement that 1017 00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:59,480 details how to proceed and in terms of 1018 00:44:57,019 --> 00:45:00,769 unexplained aerial phenomena and that 1019 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,309 they are ready that they will be 1020 00:45:00,769 --> 00:45:05,659 forwarded to that situation and command 1021 00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:09,409 center for air as a 1022 00:45:05,659 --> 00:45:12,798 50 so that's that was in 2011 you know 1023 00:45:09,409 --> 00:45:17,779 so we'd always been thinking that in 1024 00:45:12,798 --> 00:45:19,730 2011 or as of 2011 it was more or less 1025 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:21,710 clear to us that if there's any german 1026 00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:24,108 authority that deals with UFO sightings 1027 00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:29,650 it must be that famous and a left set 1028 00:45:24,108 --> 00:45:34,098 and and in fact you know i made several 1029 00:45:29,650 --> 00:45:36,920 attempts in 2015 for example i i had the 1030 00:45:34,099 --> 00:45:40,579 chance to ask the spokesperson of the 1031 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:45,409 german government about UFO FILES and 1032 00:45:40,579 --> 00:45:47,000 and he said and you know and i think he 1033 00:45:45,409 --> 00:45:49,308 recognized me because he used to me by 1034 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,530 boss when I worked for SETI F television 1035 00:45:49,309 --> 00:45:53,119 when he was still working for television 1036 00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:55,339 as well and now he's the spokesperson of 1037 00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:56,750 the government and he said I know there 1038 00:45:55,338 --> 00:45:58,699 are a lot of people who spend a lot of 1039 00:45:56,750 --> 00:46:00,260 time debating on this on the Internet 1040 00:45:58,699 --> 00:46:02,298 it is not the center of German 1041 00:46:00,260 --> 00:46:04,760 government policy and not even on the 1042 00:46:02,298 --> 00:46:06,440 fringes of this government's policy nor 1043 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,180 do we have the feeling that is in any 1044 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,940 way a question that would be important 1045 00:46:08,179 --> 00:46:11,509 for good coexistence in Germany or in 1046 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:14,329 the world 1047 00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:17,720 well well stop right there yeah the last 1048 00:46:14,329 --> 00:46:20,089 statement nor do we feel it is a good 1049 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,009 thing for coexistence in the world like 1050 00:46:20,088 --> 00:46:24,078 it would be important for good 1051 00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:25,910 coexistence in Germany or in the world 1052 00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,349 in other words by talking about this 1053 00:46:25,909 --> 00:46:30,969 what it would start trouble that's what 1054 00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:33,349 it sounds like to me well it sounds like 1055 00:46:30,969 --> 00:46:35,598 we you know we just don't deal with it 1056 00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:39,579 and now also ask the the speaker of the 1057 00:46:35,599 --> 00:46:43,160 Ministry of Defense and he said well 1058 00:46:39,579 --> 00:46:46,519 just please understand that I can I just 1059 00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:48,500 cannot tell anything about this in in 1060 00:46:46,519 --> 00:46:50,329 this context or in this room or in this 1061 00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,949 situation or something is it I just 1062 00:46:50,329 --> 00:46:54,829 don't know anything on this and this 1063 00:46:51,949 --> 00:46:56,419 let's just back up but you there is in 1064 00:46:54,829 --> 00:47:00,500 other words a confirmation from the 1065 00:46:56,420 --> 00:47:02,480 state of Westphalia in Germany that this 1066 00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:04,190 organization that I think you called it 1067 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:07,338 the National situation an air safety 1068 00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:09,369 center this is a German yeah this is a 1069 00:47:07,338 --> 00:47:12,528 command center this is a German wide 1070 00:47:09,369 --> 00:47:17,059 office is that it's not just vs. Valeo 1071 00:47:12,528 --> 00:47:19,130 and that they do receive German UFO 1072 00:47:17,059 --> 00:47:21,740 reports that affect national security 1073 00:47:19,130 --> 00:47:23,840 that people that the police reason that 1074 00:47:21,739 --> 00:47:25,669 the police forwards them all reports on 1075 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:28,010 unexplained aerial phenomena when they 1076 00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:29,269 are related to airspace security yes so 1077 00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:31,280 that's important that's the thing so 1078 00:47:29,269 --> 00:47:33,710 they receive they receive at least those 1079 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:36,800 UFO reports that seems to me to be a 1080 00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:39,800 confirmation yes it seems to be it seems 1081 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,450 to be a confirmation but then in 2017 I 1082 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,880 made another attempt and I wanted to 1083 00:47:41,449 --> 00:47:45,889 find out more and now I'll come back to 1084 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,920 that and I left sets so that situation 1085 00:47:45,889 --> 00:47:50,989 room later on I'll just one and wants 1086 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:53,450 you to know that in 2017 we had federal 1087 00:47:50,989 --> 00:47:55,309 elections in Germany and the federal 1088 00:47:53,449 --> 00:47:58,509 elections time is a good time to ask 1089 00:47:55,309 --> 00:48:01,699 questions concerning all kinds of stuff 1090 00:47:58,510 --> 00:48:04,070 to potential candidates of the political 1091 00:48:01,699 --> 00:48:05,839 parties so I asked candidates from all 1092 00:48:04,070 --> 00:48:07,910 the political parties in Germany whether 1093 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,340 they would make German secret UFO FILES 1094 00:48:07,909 --> 00:48:12,440 public and most of them answered 1095 00:48:10,340 --> 00:48:15,079 something like well I don't know of any 1096 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:18,800 such secret files on UFOs that could be 1097 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:21,170 made public or two or three other people 1098 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,730 said well I can only refer to what the 1099 00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:26,000 spokesperson of the government already 1100 00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:27,590 told you back in 2015 they really did 1101 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,800 their research and found my name and 1102 00:48:27,590 --> 00:48:32,660 found this and the Left Party by the way 1103 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,030 the Left Party Democratic Socialist 1104 00:48:32,659 --> 00:48:37,399 Party they took it most seriously and 1105 00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:39,500 suggested I file foi a request for very 1106 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,510 specific cases and come back to them and 1107 00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:44,420 the ruling party do you have a Green 1108 00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:48,200 Party in the United States in theory yes 1109 00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:50,329 we did Jill Stein was the u.s. 1110 00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:57,079 presidential candidate for the party in 1111 00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:58,610 the last election yeah yeah okay okay so 1112 00:48:57,079 --> 00:49:00,889 the Green Party is an important party in 1113 00:48:58,610 --> 00:49:02,930 Germany it's not in the government but 1114 00:49:00,889 --> 00:49:04,759 it used to be and they had a real 1115 00:49:02,929 --> 00:49:06,859 ridiculous answer they said well 1116 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,520 transparencies of utmost importance to 1117 00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:11,599 us UFO FILES must be made public 1118 00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:13,909 unfortunately however they are written 1119 00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:14,509 in Klingon language and are heavily 1120 00:49:13,909 --> 00:49:16,460 redacted 1121 00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:18,800 if you speak that language or know 1122 00:49:16,460 --> 00:49:20,840 anybody who does please contact the BND 1123 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,420 so you see they're making fun of me 1124 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,510 asking for secret UFO FILES saying a lot 1125 00:49:23,420 --> 00:49:28,760 from i was surprised when when the other 1126 00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:30,650 left party in Germany actually took your 1127 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,110 request seriously because I find in the 1128 00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:35,630 United States Oh 1129 00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:38,960 overall I find that the American left 1130 00:49:35,630 --> 00:49:41,090 seems to dismiss the UFO subject much 1131 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,679 more than than the right and I've tried 1132 00:49:41,090 --> 00:49:45,590 to understand why this is so 1133 00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:47,210 but there's I've definitely noticed this 1134 00:49:45,590 --> 00:49:49,760 maybe a listeners will have a different 1135 00:49:47,210 --> 00:49:52,039 opinion but so but what the Green Party 1136 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:55,040 said I mean that's just insulting 1137 00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:57,019 yeah it is and I by the way the main 1138 00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:59,509 opponent of angular Merkel the German 1139 00:49:57,019 --> 00:50:01,489 Chancellor was Martin sure it's the 1140 00:49:59,510 --> 00:50:03,860 former head of the European Commission 1141 00:50:01,489 --> 00:50:05,779 or European Parliament I think and 1142 00:50:03,860 --> 00:50:07,910 Martin Schwartz 1143 00:50:05,780 --> 00:50:10,070 he's from the Social Democratic Party 1144 00:50:07,909 --> 00:50:12,559 and I had the chance to ask him 1145 00:50:10,070 --> 00:50:13,130 personally whether he would open UFO 1146 00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:16,239 FILES 1147 00:50:13,130 --> 00:50:19,010 because there was an like a survey from 1148 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:22,519 let's say a big news agents News 1149 00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:24,290 Corporation in Germany that that owns 1150 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,849 several newspapers and they made a 1151 00:50:24,289 --> 00:50:27,500 survey on the Internet 1152 00:50:25,849 --> 00:50:29,659 what questions would you like to ask 1153 00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:32,750 your your favorite political candidate 1154 00:50:29,659 --> 00:50:34,819 and I put on this question where would 1155 00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:36,260 you release your phone files when you 1156 00:50:34,820 --> 00:50:39,519 were there when you become Chancellor 1157 00:50:36,260 --> 00:50:42,230 and out of thousands of questions this 1158 00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:44,960 mysteriously my question came on top of 1159 00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:46,940 this list well it was like yeah it yeah 1160 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,849 I don't know if somebody did had a 1161 00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:52,159 hacking bot or something I can't I 1162 00:50:49,849 --> 00:50:54,380 really don't know I didn't do it myself 1163 00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:57,379 I have no idea how this came to be but 1164 00:50:54,380 --> 00:51:01,190 it in fact it was on the very first the 1165 00:50:57,380 --> 00:51:02,630 very first item on that list and so I so 1166 00:51:01,190 --> 00:51:05,780 I had the chance to ask him personally 1167 00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:08,480 and I've filmed all this and he said and 1168 00:51:05,780 --> 00:51:10,100 that was really like a turning point in 1169 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,630 this whole thing he said if these files 1170 00:51:10,099 --> 00:51:13,400 are not published because they are 1171 00:51:11,630 --> 00:51:15,410 classified as secret that I cannot 1172 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:18,440 promise you without appropriate legal 1173 00:51:15,409 --> 00:51:20,629 framework to publish them but I can 1174 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,760 assure you I would consider what are the 1175 00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:24,740 conditions why are they classified as 1176 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,900 secret and if no further secrecy is 1177 00:51:24,739 --> 00:51:30,109 required in this area then I would 1178 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:30,950 suggest to the German Bundestag that 1179 00:51:30,110 --> 00:51:33,410 they be published 1180 00:51:30,949 --> 00:51:35,869 that's and that was very reasonable 1181 00:51:33,409 --> 00:51:38,750 answer and that's yes and that's the 1182 00:51:35,869 --> 00:51:41,299 main opponent of angular Merkel and the 1183 00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:43,730 thing as well as you know as Americans 1184 00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:46,350 you would say well you know no surprise 1185 00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:47,639 at all you know UFOs and elections 1186 00:51:46,349 --> 00:51:49,889 and you have Hillary Clinton and the 1187 00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:51,750 Jimmy Kimmel show and it's just normal 1188 00:51:49,889 --> 00:51:53,730 to do that but for Germans circumstances 1189 00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:55,829 this is just not normal at all you know 1190 00:51:53,730 --> 00:51:57,599 and and I can tell you that most of the 1191 00:51:55,829 --> 00:51:59,340 journalists in the room they were really 1192 00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,799 surprised about this and this kind of 1193 00:51:59,340 --> 00:52:05,010 answer and also the the local newspaper 1194 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:08,190 from my city they came to me and they 1195 00:52:05,010 --> 00:52:09,870 wanted to to write an article on this 1196 00:52:08,190 --> 00:52:13,590 and I actually I thought they would 1197 00:52:09,869 --> 00:52:15,480 finally start to report seriously on 1198 00:52:13,590 --> 00:52:18,210 this question of why Germany doesn't 1199 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,949 have files and and what they did was in 1200 00:52:18,210 --> 00:52:23,610 fact they you know they took a photo of 1201 00:52:19,949 --> 00:52:26,609 me with with a government document that 1202 00:52:23,610 --> 00:52:28,410 I held up and they said it was basically 1203 00:52:26,610 --> 00:52:30,960 an article about that weird guy who 1204 00:52:28,409 --> 00:52:32,579 asked that strange question to a main 1205 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,980 opponent of Marty Schultz you know was 1206 00:52:32,579 --> 00:52:37,590 it was it was not nothing 1207 00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:39,630 I mean anyway it was somewhat dismissive 1208 00:52:37,590 --> 00:52:41,160 it sounds like I'm not really taking you 1209 00:52:39,630 --> 00:52:43,380 seriously and what when did this whole 1210 00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:46,619 exchange take place Robert that was in 1211 00:52:43,380 --> 00:52:49,920 August 2017 not long a year ago 1212 00:52:46,619 --> 00:52:52,230 yes a year ago yeah a year ago so and 1213 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:56,460 and what's interesting I had also asked 1214 00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:58,679 Angela Merkel via different media you 1215 00:52:56,460 --> 00:53:00,720 know there's a website where you can ask 1216 00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:02,609 her I did I contacted her office 1217 00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,559 directly and stuff and then shortly 1218 00:53:02,610 --> 00:53:08,400 after Martin Schultz had answered that 1219 00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:11,429 he would open UFO FILES and I received 1220 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:14,610 her reply from the chancellor's office 1221 00:53:11,429 --> 00:53:17,009 and they said and that now she she 1222 00:53:14,610 --> 00:53:20,670 brought in another military authority in 1223 00:53:17,010 --> 00:53:23,130 in Germany that that was known to me but 1224 00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:25,650 that didn't play any role at all in the 1225 00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:27,660 UFO subject until then she said the 1226 00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:29,849 Space Operations Center of the German 1227 00:53:27,659 --> 00:53:32,519 military is tasked with monitoring all 1228 00:53:29,849 --> 00:53:34,230 near-earth objects and since its 1229 00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:36,659 beginnings there has not been any data 1230 00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:38,250 collection related to unknown flying 1231 00:53:36,659 --> 00:53:40,859 objects and therefore there's no 1232 00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:42,179 material to be published so that was a 1233 00:53:40,860 --> 00:53:44,640 complete backlash 1234 00:53:42,179 --> 00:53:47,250 you know the Space Operations centers at 1235 00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:50,489 the same location as the NLF set and 1236 00:53:47,250 --> 00:53:55,860 then I I started to make more fo ia 1237 00:53:50,489 --> 00:53:57,719 requests and to ask them to try to find 1238 00:53:55,860 --> 00:53:59,579 out more okay so if it's not that if 1239 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,149 it's not the Space Operations Center 1240 00:53:59,579 --> 00:54:03,058 maybe 1241 00:54:00,150 --> 00:54:05,818 the situation and control room didi Anna 1242 00:54:03,059 --> 00:54:07,619 left said yes and since I knew that the 1243 00:54:05,818 --> 00:54:09,960 German Freedom of Information Act would 1244 00:54:07,619 --> 00:54:12,599 not be applicable to questions of 1245 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:14,460 Defense and national security but only 1246 00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:18,088 to administrative things you know I said 1247 00:54:14,460 --> 00:54:20,670 well it's become known to me that such 1248 00:54:18,088 --> 00:54:22,349 occurrences are being forwarded to you 1249 00:54:20,670 --> 00:54:25,829 I'd like to know more about the 1250 00:54:22,349 --> 00:54:28,890 Administrative Procedures that are in 1251 00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:32,910 the set up and in place just in case 1252 00:54:28,889 --> 00:54:35,519 such a report comes in and and I really 1253 00:54:32,909 --> 00:54:38,159 expected them to give me well this 1254 00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:42,329 doesn't you know you're not supposed to 1255 00:54:38,159 --> 00:54:45,149 know or or something or whatever but 1256 00:54:42,329 --> 00:54:48,900 they said well there's thank you for 1257 00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:51,869 your inquiry we don't deal with UFOs and 1258 00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:54,210 that's really weird because what I 1259 00:54:51,869 --> 00:54:56,309 haven't told you before is that in fact 1260 00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:58,769 when this whole thing became public in 1261 00:54:56,309 --> 00:55:02,069 December 2011 that those kinds of 1262 00:54:58,769 --> 00:55:07,019 reports are forwarded to that situation 1263 00:55:02,068 --> 00:55:09,750 and and command centers the NLF said I 1264 00:55:07,019 --> 00:55:11,880 was in touch with a journal his 1265 00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:15,059 colleague of mine who works for a very 1266 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,650 big very very big newspaper in Germany I 1267 00:55:15,059 --> 00:55:20,369 can't reveal its name because it would 1268 00:55:16,650 --> 00:55:22,588 get him into trouble and he told me and 1269 00:55:20,369 --> 00:55:24,358 I believe him that it's true he said he 1270 00:55:22,588 --> 00:55:26,519 called the the press office of the 1271 00:55:24,358 --> 00:55:28,920 German Ministry of Defence and he had 1272 00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:31,798 the press officer of the Ministry of 1273 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:35,059 Defence confirming him on the telephone 1274 00:55:31,798 --> 00:55:38,880 that they do receive UFO reports and 1275 00:55:35,059 --> 00:55:40,200 that they allegedly throw them and throw 1276 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,390 them into the bin as soon as they 1277 00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:44,189 received them which is just ridiculous 1278 00:55:42,389 --> 00:55:45,629 you hold that thought Robert we're at 1279 00:55:44,190 --> 00:55:47,190 the top of the hour I want to return to 1280 00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:49,619 this okwait it's very important I'm 1281 00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:54,420 Richard Dolan here you're listening to 1282 00:55:49,619 --> 00:55:57,059 german journalist and UFO shall we say 1283 00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:58,500 researcher I I know you know you don't 1284 00:55:57,059 --> 00:56:00,089 want to be called a ufologist but you 1285 00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:03,028 are a Jew of our researcher Robert 1286 00:56:00,088 --> 00:56:05,219 Fleischer and we will be back with more 1287 00:56:03,028 --> 00:56:07,199 information on German and European UFOs 1288 00:56:05,219 --> 00:56:09,480 after this year listening to the kgr a 1289 00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:11,399 radio we'll be right back we're back in 1290 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,889 with Robert Fleischer Robert we were 1291 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,889 just talking about Angela Merkel's 1292 00:56:13,889 --> 00:56:19,199 office of the space office in Germany I 1293 00:56:16,889 --> 00:56:20,819 guess is how I would describe it and you 1294 00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:23,129 you commented that they don't 1295 00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:28,620 investigate UFOs could you just follow 1296 00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:31,170 up on that yes so P I was told by a 1297 00:56:28,619 --> 00:56:32,789 friend a colleague of mine who works for 1298 00:56:31,170 --> 00:56:35,579 a very big news organization in Germany 1299 00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:37,380 that he was told by the press officer of 1300 00:56:35,579 --> 00:56:40,860 the German Ministry of Defence that the 1301 00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:43,050 NLF said so that's the situation and 1302 00:56:40,860 --> 00:56:45,690 control room for as air safe security 1303 00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:47,850 airspace security in Germany that they 1304 00:56:45,690 --> 00:56:51,900 do receive UFO reports but when they 1305 00:56:47,849 --> 00:56:54,869 receive them they will they immediately 1306 00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:57,630 destroyed those reports and and don't 1307 00:56:54,869 --> 00:57:00,989 even look at it which is in my in my 1308 00:56:57,630 --> 00:57:02,519 opinion just not credible because it's 1309 00:57:00,989 --> 00:57:04,829 just not believable because this is the 1310 00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:07,019 center that is there to investigate 1311 00:57:04,829 --> 00:57:10,679 possible threats to airspace security 1312 00:57:07,019 --> 00:57:13,460 and if they receive a report on some 1313 00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:15,269 intrusion into the German airspace 1314 00:57:13,460 --> 00:57:20,550 that's what they're supposed to be 1315 00:57:15,269 --> 00:57:22,409 looking for like unknown objects yeah 1316 00:57:20,550 --> 00:57:25,580 why would they destroy it so Angela 1317 00:57:22,409 --> 00:57:31,019 Merkel when I asked her she had her 1318 00:57:25,579 --> 00:57:33,509 office respond and her office told me 1319 00:57:31,019 --> 00:57:37,349 that the space she didn't speak about 1320 00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:39,540 the NLF said this situation in control 1321 00:57:37,349 --> 00:57:41,339 room for a space security but she's she 1322 00:57:39,539 --> 00:57:45,029 brought into play the so-called space 1323 00:57:41,340 --> 00:57:51,860 Operations Center which is also part of 1324 00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:58,460 the air operations of the German German 1325 00:57:51,860 --> 00:58:00,480 air force okay and and she said this 1326 00:57:58,460 --> 00:58:02,940 operation center is tasked with 1327 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:05,039 monitoring near-earth objects and since 1328 00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:07,079 its beginnings there's not been any data 1329 00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:08,639 collection relate related to unknown 1330 00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:12,239 flying objects and therefore there's no 1331 00:58:08,639 --> 00:58:14,069 material to be published so that seemed 1332 00:58:12,239 --> 00:58:17,729 like a complete backlash and then I 1333 00:58:14,070 --> 00:58:22,289 still kept digging and I kept filing foi 1334 00:58:17,730 --> 00:58:23,579 a reports and I filed an FAA report and 1335 00:58:22,289 --> 00:58:26,550 I wanted to know what are the 1336 00:58:23,579 --> 00:58:27,619 administrative procedures whenever such 1337 00:58:26,550 --> 00:58:30,980 a report comes in 1338 00:58:27,619 --> 00:58:33,769 and they said the space up the Space 1339 00:58:30,980 --> 00:58:36,349 Operations Center the German Air Force 1340 00:58:33,769 --> 00:58:38,179 they said there's no such thing here we 1341 00:58:36,349 --> 00:58:40,130 have nothing on file 1342 00:58:38,179 --> 00:58:42,889 there's nothing but what's interesting 1343 00:58:40,130 --> 00:58:45,320 is I didn't only file an FOI a request 1344 00:58:42,889 --> 00:58:47,239 but I also made an inquiry like an 1345 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,460 official press inquiry to the press 1346 00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:52,579 office of the Space Operations Center Oh 1347 00:58:49,460 --> 00:58:54,070 interesting and and that was and I 1348 00:58:52,579 --> 00:58:57,110 received a completely different 1349 00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:59,600 information and and they said they 1350 00:58:57,110 --> 00:59:02,390 answered if unexplained phenomena occur 1351 00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:05,449 in airspace or near Earth space or on 1352 00:59:02,389 --> 00:59:09,109 requests of other authorities the Space 1353 00:59:05,449 --> 00:59:11,359 Operations Center checks whether there 1354 00:59:09,110 --> 00:59:13,519 is a reentry of space debris rocket 1355 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,920 stages or similar or an entry of 1356 00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:18,860 asteroids meteorites into the observed 1357 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,780 area that could possibly be the cause of 1358 00:59:18,860 --> 00:59:22,880 the above-mentioned phenomena so at 1359 00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:25,430 least they are there not mentioning 1360 00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:27,470 unexplained I mean they are mentioning 1361 00:59:25,429 --> 00:59:29,539 unexplained phenomena you know and there 1362 00:59:27,469 --> 00:59:32,239 and they are saying yes we do 1363 00:59:29,539 --> 00:59:34,039 investigate it and we we look whether 1364 00:59:32,239 --> 00:59:35,599 it's an asteroid a meteorite or 1365 00:59:34,039 --> 00:59:37,639 something you know so they are saying 1366 00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:39,289 that there are procedures there are 1367 00:59:37,639 --> 00:59:41,179 procedures they are saying they are 1368 00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:42,710 saying absolutely they are saying we do 1369 00:59:41,179 --> 00:59:44,569 investigate this so it is really 1370 00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:47,000 interesting it was really interesting 1371 00:59:44,570 --> 00:59:50,420 that an official foi a request would get 1372 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:53,510 in like a void answer whereas a press 1373 00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:55,010 inquiry would would gain much more 1374 00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:57,560 information from that you know but still 1375 00:59:55,010 --> 01:00:00,320 I don't know anything I I made an appeal 1376 00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:03,019 to that answer they gave me but still no 1377 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,730 results well they're stonewalling you I 1378 01:00:03,019 --> 01:00:07,659 mean to such a ridiculous extent but 1379 01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:10,159 there there's obviously not a 100% 1380 01:00:07,659 --> 01:00:11,449 coordination among all of the different 1381 01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:13,639 parts of the German government because 1382 01:00:11,449 --> 01:00:16,069 it's it's a large government and so if 1383 01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:17,839 you found you found a little a little 1384 01:00:16,070 --> 01:00:20,120 wedge a little wedge to open up there 1385 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,620 and and and and what's interesting you 1386 01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:23,929 know this is this has always been the 1387 01:00:21,619 --> 01:00:26,029 question is there any office at all any 1388 01:00:23,929 --> 01:00:30,589 authority at all the deals with UFO 1389 01:00:26,030 --> 01:00:32,690 subjects and I came to know a retired 1390 01:00:30,590 --> 01:00:35,870 general from the German Ministry of 1391 01:00:32,690 --> 01:00:38,929 Defence he is he's actually a doctor in 1392 01:00:35,869 --> 01:00:41,179 the rank of a general he worked for 1393 01:00:38,929 --> 01:00:44,299 decades in the highest ranks of 1394 01:00:41,179 --> 01:00:47,269 of the ministry and also shape 1395 01:00:44,300 --> 01:00:49,190 headquarters that's achieve its 1396 01:00:47,269 --> 01:00:52,969 strategic headquarters Allied 1397 01:00:49,190 --> 01:00:55,760 expeditionary forces of not oh yeah NATO 1398 01:00:52,969 --> 01:00:58,250 yeah very important nature and and very 1399 01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:01,490 a very important very important person 1400 01:00:58,250 --> 01:01:03,050 and and and he he was in the audience of 1401 01:01:01,489 --> 01:01:05,088 one of my presentations when I talked 1402 01:01:03,050 --> 01:01:08,380 about all this and then afterwards he 1403 01:01:05,088 --> 01:01:12,318 came to me I said look there's something 1404 01:01:08,380 --> 01:01:15,760 that that you may want to know and he 1405 01:01:12,318 --> 01:01:18,440 started to talk about his own his own 1406 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,839 experiences first of all he had and he 1407 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:23,389 had his own UFO sighting which I'll go 1408 01:01:20,838 --> 01:01:26,568 into afterwards but in terms of in terms 1409 01:01:23,389 --> 01:01:29,299 of the German authorities he said it may 1410 01:01:26,568 --> 01:01:31,818 very well be the case that in fact no 1411 01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:37,099 German authority is concerned with UFOs 1412 01:01:31,818 --> 01:01:38,779 and that may appear bizarre because of 1413 01:01:37,099 --> 01:01:40,400 all the other countries as you have 1414 01:01:38,780 --> 01:01:43,099 pointed out in your presentation Robert 1415 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,809 as all the other countries have been 1416 01:01:43,099 --> 01:01:47,359 dealing with it and why is it that 1417 01:01:44,809 --> 01:01:49,519 Germany is not dealing with it and he 1418 01:01:47,358 --> 01:01:56,539 explained to me that it has to do with 1419 01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:57,889 Germany's special role as after the 1420 01:01:56,539 --> 01:02:00,469 world war two actually 1421 01:01:57,889 --> 01:02:03,469 it has to do with Germany not being a 1422 01:02:00,469 --> 01:02:06,529 sovereign state until 1990 the air 1423 01:02:03,469 --> 01:02:10,039 supremacy was divided among the Allied 1424 01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:12,619 powers and this jet this retired General 1425 01:02:10,039 --> 01:02:15,139 says that this has led German 1426 01:02:12,619 --> 01:02:17,750 authorities to become some sort of 1427 01:02:15,139 --> 01:02:19,759 resignated and afraid to take 1428 01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:21,858 responsibility over their own matters 1429 01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:24,020 and over the years this has become sort 1430 01:02:21,858 --> 01:02:26,509 of institutionalized in the 1431 01:02:24,019 --> 01:02:28,280 administrative processes and whenever 1432 01:02:26,510 --> 01:02:29,930 there was something bizarre he says the 1433 01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,450 Germans were actually happy to leave it 1434 01:02:29,929 --> 01:02:34,519 to the Allied powers mainly the United 1435 01:02:32,449 --> 01:02:36,558 States the UK and France but have also 1436 01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:39,710 the Tennyson and the Belgians who had 1437 01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:41,750 small portions of this air supremacy so 1438 01:02:39,710 --> 01:02:44,298 so whatever happened indeed in the 1439 01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:45,619 German airspace until 1990 the German 1440 01:02:44,298 --> 01:02:48,798 authorities didn't have any control 1441 01:02:45,619 --> 01:02:50,180 about this that was fascinating so it 1442 01:02:48,798 --> 01:02:52,079 seems like it formerly it could be a 1443 01:02:50,179 --> 01:02:55,139 NATO in 1444 01:02:52,079 --> 01:02:56,969 strain of problem not a German at least 1445 01:02:55,139 --> 01:03:00,629 that the matter of German UFOs might 1446 01:02:56,969 --> 01:03:02,309 perhaps fall under NATO's domain rather 1447 01:03:00,630 --> 01:03:04,470 than the German governments domain what 1448 01:03:02,309 --> 01:03:05,820 do you think about that well now it's 1449 01:03:04,469 --> 01:03:07,619 that's that's a good question because 1450 01:03:05,820 --> 01:03:09,330 first of all the question is if German 1451 01:03:07,619 --> 01:03:13,440 if Germany has ever become a sovereign 1452 01:03:09,329 --> 01:03:15,329 national state what is what is the 1453 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,530 nature of sovereignty in today's world I 1454 01:03:15,329 --> 01:03:18,269 mean my goodness yeah we have that you 1455 01:03:16,530 --> 01:03:19,950 have the EU we've got all kinds all 1456 01:03:18,269 --> 01:03:22,289 methods of globalization and 1457 01:03:19,949 --> 01:03:25,349 international legal arrangements that 1458 01:03:22,289 --> 01:03:26,730 really take national sovereignty deeply 1459 01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:28,230 into question and not simply with 1460 01:03:26,730 --> 01:03:30,599 Germany by the way of course but with 1461 01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:32,190 with really every nation in the world 1462 01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:34,349 there are very few nations that I think 1463 01:03:32,190 --> 01:03:38,880 that are truly sovereign anymore yeah 1464 01:03:34,349 --> 01:03:41,219 and and he said that actually if you 1465 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:45,390 think about it after 1990 you know that 1466 01:03:41,219 --> 01:03:48,509 the the air supremacy or the control 1467 01:03:45,389 --> 01:03:50,730 over the German airspace was officially 1468 01:03:48,510 --> 01:03:52,560 handed over to the Germans again but 1469 01:03:50,730 --> 01:03:54,599 unofficially of course you know that the 1470 01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:56,039 Americans especially they play a huge 1471 01:03:54,599 --> 01:03:58,199 role you know what they are doing on 1472 01:03:56,039 --> 01:04:00,539 their Rammstein base you know no one 1473 01:03:58,199 --> 01:04:02,669 knows what they I mean this is and this 1474 01:04:00,539 --> 01:04:04,949 is a huge area you know they have 1475 01:04:02,670 --> 01:04:06,900 flights coming in and out I don't know 1476 01:04:04,949 --> 01:04:08,819 if the Germans are aware of anything of 1477 01:04:06,900 --> 01:04:12,000 everything every single plane is going 1478 01:04:08,820 --> 01:04:16,980 in now it's tough and also there is 1479 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:19,650 there is evidence to suggest that the 1480 01:04:16,980 --> 01:04:22,500 Germans left UFO sightings to the US 1481 01:04:19,650 --> 01:04:24,869 military before 1990 and it may very 1482 01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:28,320 well be the case that this is still so 1483 01:04:24,869 --> 01:04:30,929 now after 1990 there was once there's a 1484 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,910 one case I can't remember that the exact 1485 01:04:30,929 --> 01:04:36,359 year but there was one case where a 1486 01:04:32,909 --> 01:04:38,759 chestnut pilot called Mayday over the 1487 01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,680 radio because there was a UFO that 1488 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,720 circled around his plane and his 1489 01:04:40,679 --> 01:04:45,329 airplane started to rotate around its 1490 01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:48,809 own axis so he started to call Mayday 1491 01:04:45,329 --> 01:04:52,130 Mayday and after its landing he landed 1492 01:04:48,809 --> 01:04:54,480 in Hanover and then he was he was not 1493 01:04:52,130 --> 01:04:57,269 interrogated by German authorities but 1494 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,349 by US military intelligence officers on 1495 01:04:57,269 --> 01:05:01,019 German soil 1496 01:04:58,349 --> 01:05:03,420 when was a year of this do you recall 1497 01:05:01,019 --> 01:05:05,230 yeah III don't know right now I don't 1498 01:05:03,420 --> 01:05:10,000 know right now 1499 01:05:05,230 --> 01:05:12,519 80s 90s something like this and and and 1500 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,920 he was eventually even sworn to secrecy 1501 01:05:12,519 --> 01:05:17,619 like he was told never to talk about 1502 01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,570 this incident to anybody by like a 1503 01:05:17,619 --> 01:05:23,980 German just imagined German private 1504 01:05:19,570 --> 01:05:26,019 pilot is you know has a UFO incident he 1505 01:05:23,980 --> 01:05:28,269 lands and here can see America it's by 1506 01:05:26,019 --> 01:05:32,019 US military intelligence officers who 1507 01:05:28,269 --> 01:05:34,358 order him not to talk about this what is 1508 01:05:32,019 --> 01:05:37,809 that I mean how is that even possible 1509 01:05:34,358 --> 01:05:40,750 you know so so that incident already 1510 01:05:37,809 --> 01:05:43,539 points to to this to the possibility 1511 01:05:40,750 --> 01:05:47,679 that the Americans have been dealing 1512 01:05:43,539 --> 01:05:49,809 with UFO incidents in Germany just as 1513 01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:51,639 they have been dealing with UFO 1514 01:05:49,809 --> 01:05:53,619 incidents in all other parts of the 1515 01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:55,719 world I presume I don't want to think I 1516 01:05:53,619 --> 01:06:00,070 think of come on sorry go on 1517 01:05:55,719 --> 01:06:03,399 yeah just think of the of the island of 1518 01:06:00,070 --> 01:06:05,859 culeros operation saucer thing where 1519 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,869 with the the thing that was officially 1520 01:06:05,858 --> 01:06:10,000 ended by the Brazilian Ministry of 1521 01:06:07,869 --> 01:06:12,519 Defense of Brazilian military and then 1522 01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,769 the Americans continued that operation 1523 01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:17,650 under another name and in secret you 1524 01:06:14,769 --> 01:06:23,440 know and think about the Iran case 1525 01:06:17,650 --> 01:06:26,260 Parviz Jafari who in 1976 I think you 1526 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:29,108 know was scrambled with his jet to to 1527 01:06:26,260 --> 01:06:33,579 chase a UFO and turned to turn out to be 1528 01:06:29,108 --> 01:06:36,279 a that chased himself by a big UFO you 1529 01:06:33,579 --> 01:06:38,230 know so and though in the end about the 1530 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,089 Americans are all meddled in all this 1531 01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:41,500 kinds of stuff you know this is I don't 1532 01:06:40,088 --> 01:06:43,750 want to take this away from the German 1533 01:06:41,500 --> 01:06:46,750 UFO scene but I'll just add here I'll 1534 01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:48,909 interject that what the US did with that 1535 01:06:46,750 --> 01:06:51,030 German part private pilot this this is 1536 01:06:48,909 --> 01:06:54,190 indeed what the United States does with 1537 01:06:51,030 --> 01:06:56,380 really every other nation on the on the 1538 01:06:54,190 --> 01:06:58,030 world other than the Russians and 1539 01:06:56,380 --> 01:07:01,180 Chinese and and the few nations that are 1540 01:06:58,030 --> 01:07:03,819 really outside of the US reach all of 1541 01:07:01,179 --> 01:07:07,299 South America anytime there's a South 1542 01:07:03,818 --> 01:07:08,800 American UFO situation if it's important 1543 01:07:07,300 --> 01:07:11,079 of the United States is on top of it and 1544 01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:13,599 they dominate it this also goes with 1545 01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:15,430 Europe and that is because the United 1546 01:07:13,599 --> 01:07:16,710 States national security intelligence 1547 01:07:15,429 --> 01:07:18,480 community 1548 01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:20,608 has their their tentacles their hooks 1549 01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,579 into all of those nations and and really 1550 01:07:20,608 --> 01:07:26,789 dominates them all the United States 1551 01:07:22,579 --> 01:07:28,829 does not allow true sovereignty to 1552 01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:32,369 really any other nation at least in 1553 01:07:28,829 --> 01:07:34,889 terms of its foreign relations and it 1554 01:07:32,369 --> 01:07:36,588 appears in terms of UFO policy the other 1555 01:07:34,889 --> 01:07:39,329 nations will have different levels of 1556 01:07:36,588 --> 01:07:41,549 Independence so for example the United 1557 01:07:39,329 --> 01:07:46,829 Kingdom Britain will have more leeway 1558 01:07:41,550 --> 01:07:51,450 clearly than say than Poland will these 1559 01:07:46,829 --> 01:07:53,279 days under US control or more than Chile 1560 01:07:51,449 --> 01:07:55,769 will or other nations but they all have 1561 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:57,599 different levels of what they can like 1562 01:07:55,769 --> 01:08:00,420 they're allowed to do but in terms of 1563 01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:03,170 the UFO situation I have strongly felt 1564 01:08:00,420 --> 01:08:06,869 for years that the United States 1565 01:08:03,170 --> 01:08:08,880 dominates and really coordinates closely 1566 01:08:06,869 --> 01:08:10,608 with the intelligence agencies of all 1567 01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,230 the other nations that that is able to 1568 01:08:10,608 --> 01:08:15,179 BMD the German BND is actually an 1569 01:08:13,230 --> 01:08:16,770 American outlet you know that it used to 1570 01:08:15,179 --> 01:08:18,180 be that the American that the German 1571 01:08:16,770 --> 01:08:19,880 branch of the of the Central 1572 01:08:18,180 --> 01:08:22,739 Intelligence Agency 1573 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:25,199 exactly it was founded you know anyway 1574 01:08:22,738 --> 01:08:27,509 so this is this is some kind of clue 1575 01:08:25,199 --> 01:08:30,479 that hints to the possibility that after 1576 01:08:27,509 --> 01:08:33,210 1991 Germany regained his official 1577 01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:36,329 sovereignty over its own airspace that 1578 01:08:33,210 --> 01:08:38,609 they that this situation that had lasted 1579 01:08:36,329 --> 01:08:42,000 for decades just had left a void and 1580 01:08:38,609 --> 01:08:44,819 that no ministry would be willing to 1581 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,500 jump in on the responsibility and I 1582 01:08:44,819 --> 01:08:49,529 talked to that general and he told me 1583 01:08:46,500 --> 01:08:51,420 well if just imagine you know a ministry 1584 01:08:49,529 --> 01:08:54,330 if you've received some UFO inquiry 1585 01:08:51,420 --> 01:08:56,730 would you even touch it because there is 1586 01:08:54,329 --> 01:08:58,769 this regulation if you start to touch it 1587 01:08:56,729 --> 01:09:01,738 then you will have to to touch it again 1588 01:08:58,770 --> 01:09:04,500 so you will be responsible for it and 1589 01:09:01,738 --> 01:09:07,379 and there's also I mean no ministry 1590 01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:11,159 would ever touch the subject so if any 1591 01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:13,170 authority would be would be concerned 1592 01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:16,889 with the subject and it would be because 1593 01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:19,440 of the German Chancellor to to direct or 1594 01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:23,039 to order that ministry to take charge of 1595 01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:25,679 to take charge of that subject so he 1596 01:09:23,039 --> 01:09:27,750 said may very well be that and that's 1597 01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,700 general who worked in the German 1598 01:09:27,750 --> 01:09:30,639 Ministry of Defence fought for quite 1599 01:09:29,699 --> 01:09:33,519 some time he's 1600 01:09:30,639 --> 01:09:35,679 may very well be that Germany is just 1601 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:39,279 the exception on the international level 1602 01:09:35,679 --> 01:09:41,920 because there's no ministry or any 1603 01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:46,150 authority that deals with UFOs however I 1604 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:48,880 must add that I know that the German 1605 01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:51,698 MUFON Association there's a German 1606 01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:54,578 branch or a German let's call it cousin 1607 01:09:51,698 --> 01:09:57,279 of the of American MUFON MUFON see as 1608 01:09:54,578 --> 01:09:59,289 Central European section they have 1609 01:09:57,279 --> 01:10:00,670 actually they actually have a good 1610 01:09:59,289 --> 01:10:03,368 connection with the military and 1611 01:10:00,670 --> 01:10:06,340 whenever they receive a report on UFOs 1612 01:10:03,368 --> 01:10:12,569 they file an FOI a request and they have 1613 01:10:06,340 --> 01:10:17,139 a contact there and that contact they 1614 01:10:12,569 --> 01:10:19,808 sends them even radar plots and analysis 1615 01:10:17,139 --> 01:10:22,150 and stuff so they are very open he says 1616 01:10:19,809 --> 01:10:26,020 we can't complain at all about the 1617 01:10:22,149 --> 01:10:28,479 military hiding stuff from us it's 1618 01:10:26,020 --> 01:10:32,889 complete opposite now that's interesting 1619 01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:36,908 isn't it yes yes absolutely not not the 1620 01:10:32,889 --> 01:10:39,219 same way so I told you this general you 1621 01:10:36,908 --> 01:10:42,819 know we talked about this and then and 1622 01:10:39,219 --> 01:10:44,859 then he went on to say you know and and 1623 01:10:42,819 --> 01:10:48,039 by the way I also had my own sighting 1624 01:10:44,859 --> 01:10:50,589 and I said what do you mean and he said 1625 01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:55,000 well it was a long time ago in on 1626 01:10:50,590 --> 01:10:58,539 December in December of 1982 he was 1627 01:10:55,000 --> 01:11:03,219 working as a medical doctor at that time 1628 01:10:58,539 --> 01:11:05,229 in in his military capacity and he was 1629 01:11:03,219 --> 01:11:06,730 called on a rescue mission to save an 1630 01:11:05,229 --> 01:11:10,678 old man who had suffered a cardiac 1631 01:11:06,729 --> 01:11:14,828 arrest and in that specific region 1632 01:11:10,679 --> 01:11:17,260 that's in lower saxony i believe at that 1633 01:11:14,828 --> 01:11:19,118 time there were no medical emergency 1634 01:11:17,260 --> 01:11:21,340 helicopters available okay 1635 01:11:19,118 --> 01:11:23,109 civil medical emergency helicopters so 1636 01:11:21,340 --> 01:11:24,819 they they had a some kind of agreement 1637 01:11:23,109 --> 01:11:26,589 with the police that whenever something 1638 01:11:24,819 --> 01:11:31,960 would happen they were allowed to call 1639 01:11:26,590 --> 01:11:33,699 the military in and so and so they they 1640 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:37,239 were called to assist with their search 1641 01:11:33,698 --> 01:11:39,308 and rescue helicopter and they flew 1642 01:11:37,238 --> 01:11:41,709 there it took him quite some time to 1643 01:11:39,309 --> 01:11:44,050 resuscitate that old man and they flew 1644 01:11:41,710 --> 01:11:46,210 him to a hospital in cellar 1645 01:11:44,050 --> 01:11:50,050 that's the name of that city and when 1646 01:11:46,210 --> 01:11:52,060 they arrived there the old man on the 1647 01:11:50,050 --> 01:11:54,670 bench he had another cardiac arrests and 1648 01:11:52,060 --> 01:11:56,230 the medics he said they started running 1649 01:11:54,670 --> 01:11:59,890 down the hallway with him and I was 1650 01:11:56,229 --> 01:12:02,439 completely exhausted and a nurse saw the 1651 01:11:59,890 --> 01:12:04,450 former general that he was so exhausted 1652 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:07,899 and offered him a coffee and his 1653 01:12:04,449 --> 01:12:10,630 helicopter crew before they went on to 1654 01:12:07,899 --> 01:12:12,309 return through their base in Fastback at 1655 01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:14,590 the Fastback base where they were 1656 01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:16,780 stationed in NOAA Saxony and then 1657 01:12:14,590 --> 01:12:19,779 between midnight and 1:00 a.m. on 1658 01:12:16,779 --> 01:12:22,300 December 6 they jumped into the 1659 01:12:19,779 --> 01:12:25,119 helicopter again and flew back to their 1660 01:12:22,300 --> 01:12:26,260 base and the weather was very bad that 1661 01:12:25,119 --> 01:12:28,349 night mm-hmm 1662 01:12:26,260 --> 01:12:30,730 there were low clouds drizzling rain 1663 01:12:28,350 --> 01:12:33,490 their helicopter was flying at a low 1664 01:12:30,729 --> 01:12:36,429 altitude around 50 meters above surface 1665 01:12:33,489 --> 01:12:39,819 above ground surface around 20 meters 1666 01:12:36,430 --> 01:12:42,070 above the treetops very mm very low yes 1667 01:12:39,819 --> 01:12:43,779 yes very low very low I don't know why 1668 01:12:42,069 --> 01:12:44,289 that was maybe because of the wind or I 1669 01:12:43,779 --> 01:12:47,199 don't know 1670 01:12:44,289 --> 01:12:50,880 and then suddenly he says he noticed on 1671 01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:53,319 his left hand side some glowing clouds 1672 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,970 lights in the clouds and he was 1673 01:12:53,319 --> 01:12:57,729 wondering why is it glowing in the 1674 01:12:54,970 --> 01:12:59,740 clouds and and he said it was a very 1675 01:12:57,729 --> 01:13:02,769 bright light it was comparable to that 1676 01:12:59,739 --> 01:13:04,869 of a spotlight in intensity but it had 1677 01:13:02,770 --> 01:13:07,530 had a quite different quality he 1678 01:13:04,869 --> 01:13:10,559 describes it us as a very bright green 1679 01:13:07,529 --> 01:13:13,719 whitish light which didn't hurt the eye 1680 01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:16,270 when he looked at it it was continuously 1681 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:20,530 flowing he said it looked like water 1682 01:13:16,270 --> 01:13:24,160 from a spring it was nice to look at it 1683 01:13:20,529 --> 01:13:25,809 flew alongside them the did the distance 1684 01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:28,359 he said was difficult to ascertain he 1685 01:13:25,810 --> 01:13:29,770 said he estimated it around a hundred 1686 01:13:28,359 --> 01:13:31,839 meter distance but it was really 1687 01:13:29,770 --> 01:13:34,240 difficult because it was night there was 1688 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,430 no sera reference points with me I was 1689 01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:38,319 just a light in the clouds only or did 1690 01:13:36,430 --> 01:13:40,510 it know that he's not know it was 1691 01:13:38,319 --> 01:13:42,759 initially it was in the cloud and then 1692 01:13:40,510 --> 01:13:46,840 it came out of the cloud and it was a 1693 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:51,010 light ball a greenish whitish light pole 1694 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:53,260 okay that very bright with very 1695 01:13:51,010 --> 01:13:55,210 different quality of light that he had 1696 01:13:53,260 --> 01:13:57,460 ever seen before that's what he insisted 1697 01:13:55,210 --> 01:13:59,680 on that it was very 1698 01:13:57,460 --> 01:14:02,890 range light something he had never seen 1699 01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:05,829 before and they were flying like a 1700 01:14:02,890 --> 01:14:09,520 hundred and 60 km/h so how much is that 1701 01:14:05,829 --> 01:14:10,359 is like eight Mario's about almost 100 1702 01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,120 miles per hour 1703 01:14:10,359 --> 01:14:15,130 yeah 90 something miles per hour and and 1704 01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:17,189 the pilot said to the on-board mechanic 1705 01:14:15,130 --> 01:14:20,230 guy who's flying there at this weather 1706 01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:21,399 and they all those there were four guys 1707 01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:22,959 on the helicopter and they were 1708 01:14:21,399 --> 01:14:25,420 wondering if this was some kind of 1709 01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:27,670 secret aircraft and they decided to call 1710 01:14:25,420 --> 01:14:30,310 the tower the air control tower of the 1711 01:14:27,670 --> 01:14:33,489 nearby airfield Langan hardened to check 1712 01:14:30,310 --> 01:14:34,989 whether they had any air traffic nearby 1713 01:14:33,488 --> 01:14:36,819 but the controller and said they only 1714 01:14:34,988 --> 01:14:37,718 had their helicopter on their screen and 1715 01:14:36,819 --> 01:14:40,059 nothing else 1716 01:14:37,719 --> 01:14:41,619 mm-hm and that strange light accompanied 1717 01:14:40,060 --> 01:14:44,289 the helicopter for about one or two 1718 01:14:41,619 --> 01:14:47,500 minutes and then suddenly the light 1719 01:14:44,289 --> 01:14:50,738 makes a sharp sharp right angle turn 1720 01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:53,140 towards the helicopter and and it shoots 1721 01:14:50,738 --> 01:14:55,109 at them at a great speed and they are 1722 01:14:53,140 --> 01:14:57,910 all shocked in the helicopter the pilot 1723 01:14:55,109 --> 01:15:00,519 tore the helicopter sharply down right 1724 01:14:57,909 --> 01:15:03,579 you know and when the light approached 1725 01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:06,730 helicopter when the light had approached 1726 01:15:03,579 --> 01:15:09,550 the helicopter at like ten meters or so 1727 01:15:06,729 --> 01:15:12,159 the general heard a static radio noise 1728 01:15:09,550 --> 01:15:13,779 on his headset and the onboard mechanic 1729 01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:16,119 screamed to the pilot watch out you 1730 01:15:13,779 --> 01:15:17,829 getting into the trees and then the 1731 01:15:16,119 --> 01:15:20,050 object changed its direction very 1732 01:15:17,829 --> 01:15:22,449 rapidly and shot upwards in the air 1733 01:15:20,050 --> 01:15:24,550 where it disappeared in another glowing 1734 01:15:22,449 --> 01:15:27,250 cloud and fortunately the helicopter 1735 01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:28,630 came to rest above a small lake in the 1736 01:15:27,250 --> 01:15:31,300 forest that had just happened to be 1737 01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:33,100 there where the pilot managed to 1738 01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:36,340 stabilize it and that actually that 1739 01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:38,260 saved their lives as I crashed into the 1740 01:15:36,340 --> 01:15:40,360 into the tree so this UFO sighting 1741 01:15:38,260 --> 01:15:42,909 actually almost caused the death of four 1742 01:15:40,359 --> 01:15:44,409 soldiers right they this is very similar 1743 01:15:42,909 --> 01:15:47,199 I want to hear the rest of it but just 1744 01:15:44,409 --> 01:15:49,359 people should know this is reminds me 1745 01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:52,359 there's a famous American case from 1746 01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:55,179 about a decade earlier from the fall of 1747 01:15:52,359 --> 01:15:59,289 1973 involving a u.s. pilot named 1748 01:15:55,180 --> 01:16:02,430 Lawrence Coyne co y and E and he - he 1749 01:15:59,289 --> 01:16:06,369 was a US military helicopter pilot had a 1750 01:16:02,430 --> 01:16:08,950 very dramatic encounter with a glowing 1751 01:16:06,369 --> 01:16:11,140 UFO that approached his helicopter and 1752 01:16:08,949 --> 01:16:12,460 they did all kinds of Alta 1753 01:16:11,140 --> 01:16:14,560 huge changes as well it was quite 1754 01:16:12,460 --> 01:16:16,689 dramatic and they nearly had some major 1755 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,280 equipment malfunctions as well and this 1756 01:16:16,689 --> 01:16:20,019 is a German case now from you said 1757 01:16:18,279 --> 01:16:24,849 December 1982 1758 01:16:20,020 --> 01:16:26,770 yes December 6 1982 so go on this is 1759 01:16:24,850 --> 01:16:29,800 fascinating and so they kept hovering 1760 01:16:26,770 --> 01:16:32,020 over that little lake in the forest for 1761 01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:34,090 a couple of minutes first of all you 1762 01:16:32,020 --> 01:16:36,330 know to come clean with what they've 1763 01:16:34,090 --> 01:16:38,739 just experienced and then also to see 1764 01:16:36,329 --> 01:16:40,840 whether the light would return and they 1765 01:16:38,739 --> 01:16:43,359 also contacted the airfield Longin hang 1766 01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:45,010 again to verify if there really was no 1767 01:16:43,359 --> 01:16:47,409 other traffic in the area but the 1768 01:16:45,010 --> 01:16:50,050 controller there insisted that the 1769 01:16:47,409 --> 01:16:52,359 helicopter there was the only radar 1770 01:16:50,050 --> 01:16:54,489 returned in the in the area and he added 1771 01:16:52,359 --> 01:16:56,170 but we just saw you flying a strange 1772 01:16:54,489 --> 01:16:59,829 maneuver what was that but they didn't 1773 01:16:56,170 --> 01:17:02,440 answer and after a while they continued 1774 01:16:59,829 --> 01:17:04,569 their flight back to Fastback base and 1775 01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,979 the weather was so bad they had to open 1776 01:17:04,569 --> 01:17:09,279 the door for landing so it was really 1777 01:17:05,979 --> 01:17:11,049 bad weather at that time and this 1778 01:17:09,279 --> 01:17:12,880 general he's still after so many years 1779 01:17:11,050 --> 01:17:15,970 he was still so impressed by what he 1780 01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:17,800 seen he said to me this light it 1781 01:17:15,970 --> 01:17:20,650 demonstrated such an incredible 1782 01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:23,289 maneuverability way beyond anything I've 1783 01:17:20,649 --> 01:17:25,869 seen before mass inertia law didn't seem 1784 01:17:23,289 --> 01:17:28,449 to apply to it because it made this 1785 01:17:25,869 --> 01:17:31,809 sharp angle turn towards them and then 1786 01:17:28,449 --> 01:17:34,269 shut off at a great rate of speed 1787 01:17:31,810 --> 01:17:37,990 just up in the sky you know did that 1788 01:17:34,270 --> 01:17:41,110 like no mass inertia it's really weird 1789 01:17:37,989 --> 01:17:42,639 and he said there were no he said I'm 1790 01:17:41,109 --> 01:17:45,539 not sure if this was a solid object 1791 01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:48,100 after at all and there were no physical 1792 01:17:45,539 --> 01:17:49,739 interferences with the helicopter like 1793 01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:52,510 instruments going crazy or anything 1794 01:17:49,739 --> 01:17:54,670 besides of the static on the radio but 1795 01:17:52,510 --> 01:17:56,739 after the landing the four men talked 1796 01:17:54,670 --> 01:17:58,810 about the incident and they decided they 1797 01:17:56,739 --> 01:18:01,029 would not report it for fear of losing 1798 01:17:58,810 --> 01:18:03,340 their good reputations and flight 1799 01:18:01,029 --> 01:18:05,199 license oh yes and and he kept this 1800 01:18:03,340 --> 01:18:09,430 incident for himself for many decades 1801 01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:12,939 until around 2012 or so he read the 1802 01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:15,310 French cometa report which is a UFOs and 1803 01:18:12,939 --> 01:18:17,289 the defense what do we have to prepare 1804 01:18:15,310 --> 01:18:19,720 for something that's the title it's 1805 01:18:17,289 --> 01:18:21,850 interesting and and there therein he 1806 01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,920 found sightings reports from from other 1807 01:18:21,850 --> 01:18:24,820 pilots who had seen similar light balls 1808 01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,529 and that 1809 01:18:24,819 --> 01:18:28,840 really shook him you know and it and it 1810 01:18:26,529 --> 01:18:31,359 really got him to the point where he 1811 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:33,909 said okay now I have to go and report 1812 01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:38,170 this so at least the the sighting will 1813 01:18:33,909 --> 01:18:40,420 be recorded somewhere and so he went 1814 01:18:38,170 --> 01:18:43,840 public with his sighting but anonymously 1815 01:18:40,420 --> 01:18:47,859 he just provided the data to a certain 1816 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:49,360 UFO organization and and and he talked 1817 01:18:47,859 --> 01:18:52,210 to me personally but of course I cannot 1818 01:18:49,359 --> 01:18:54,339 reveal his his identity which is the 1819 01:18:52,210 --> 01:18:57,609 city of course I told him you know this 1820 01:18:54,340 --> 01:18:59,260 is exactly the case of the type of cases 1821 01:18:57,609 --> 01:19:02,289 that we would need like military 1822 01:18:59,260 --> 01:19:07,270 Encounters of the German military to 1823 01:19:02,289 --> 01:19:09,189 convince other witnesses to come forward 1824 01:19:07,270 --> 01:19:11,740 with their own reports so that this 1825 01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:14,319 whole subject gets against the 1826 01:19:11,739 --> 01:19:19,269 credibility it actually has but because 1827 01:19:14,319 --> 01:19:21,639 people are fearing ridicule it's real 1828 01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:24,120 and and disadvantages for their career 1829 01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:28,000 they just won't go public so there are 1830 01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:32,260 those Close Encounters in the German 1831 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:35,380 military as well but of course not no 1832 01:19:32,260 --> 01:19:36,880 faces no names you know that since 1833 01:19:35,380 --> 01:19:38,920 that's the cases are there that's a 1834 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:41,980 fascinating case Robert thank you it is 1835 01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:43,899 describing it if you're on good enough 1836 01:19:41,979 --> 01:19:47,619 terms of this general perhaps he might 1837 01:19:43,899 --> 01:19:49,659 agree to writing you a private little 1838 01:19:47,619 --> 01:19:51,519 affidavit where he can sign and I don't 1839 01:19:49,659 --> 01:19:54,069 know how old he is but perhaps after his 1840 01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,810 after his death he might give you 1841 01:19:54,069 --> 01:20:01,239 permission to publicize it but that's a 1842 01:19:55,810 --> 01:20:05,800 whole other issue still has many healthy 1843 01:20:01,239 --> 01:20:07,300 years and I'm just trying to think of 1844 01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,489 all the possibilities here because he 1845 01:20:07,300 --> 01:20:12,550 clearly doesn't want the information out 1846 01:20:09,489 --> 01:20:14,050 while he's alive so yeah but anyway 1847 01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:16,449 that's a fascinating story and it's also 1848 01:20:14,050 --> 01:20:21,640 December 1982 I think you said this was 1849 01:20:16,449 --> 01:20:25,000 during the four years that the that the 1850 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:27,310 German intelligence was monitoring UFOs 1851 01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:30,310 over the inner German border now Saxony 1852 01:20:27,310 --> 01:20:32,560 I think is not quite at that in that 1853 01:20:30,310 --> 01:20:34,750 border well it is actually actually it 1854 01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,550 is it is not so far from the inner 1855 01:20:34,750 --> 01:20:38,529 German it's not so far all day they were 1856 01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:41,590 in the inside this 1857 01:20:38,529 --> 01:20:43,750 no fly zone for German aircraft with 1858 01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:45,610 their base this would conceivably be 1859 01:20:43,750 --> 01:20:48,399 something that maybe they will have they 1860 01:20:45,609 --> 01:20:50,259 would have recorded no but but it was 1861 01:20:48,399 --> 01:20:52,599 never recorded because they never made 1862 01:20:50,260 --> 01:20:55,150 they never filed an official report on 1863 01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:57,850 their on their sighting because they 1864 01:20:55,149 --> 01:21:00,250 were fearing you know they were afraid 1865 01:20:57,850 --> 01:21:02,440 of ridicule and disadvantages for their 1866 01:21:00,250 --> 01:21:05,140 career and and also for the flight 1867 01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,699 license you know he said he said at that 1868 01:21:05,140 --> 01:21:09,250 time you know it's it's a lot about 1869 01:21:06,699 --> 01:21:11,769 standing that you have as a pilot you 1870 01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:14,020 know and then if people come and say oh 1871 01:21:11,770 --> 01:21:17,170 this is the guy who's had this weird 1872 01:21:14,020 --> 01:21:19,240 sighting well we'll we'll better not 1873 01:21:17,170 --> 01:21:21,520 choose him for that specific mission 1874 01:21:19,239 --> 01:21:24,340 this is the same around the world this 1875 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:27,640 was and I mean this was I guess this was 1876 01:21:24,340 --> 01:21:30,010 before he he went on to become a general 1877 01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:32,140 to have you know to have the rank of a 1878 01:21:30,010 --> 01:21:34,180 general so I assumed he would have never 1879 01:21:32,140 --> 01:21:38,710 become a general if he'd had told this 1880 01:21:34,180 --> 01:21:40,570 you know to anybody well Robert we're at 1881 01:21:38,710 --> 01:21:42,250 the bottom of the hour do you realize 1882 01:21:40,569 --> 01:21:44,799 we've gone through three fascinating 1883 01:21:42,250 --> 01:21:48,579 segments and we still want to talk about 1884 01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:51,460 a couple of very interesting recent UFO 1885 01:21:48,579 --> 01:21:55,630 incidents in Germany and also you were 1886 01:21:51,460 --> 01:21:58,930 investigating the French drone UFO 1887 01:21:55,630 --> 01:22:00,159 situation of 2014 and I think people 1888 01:21:58,930 --> 01:22:01,630 would really like to hear about that so 1889 01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:04,210 how about when we come back come back 1890 01:22:01,630 --> 01:22:06,159 after the break we discussed the Bremen 1891 01:22:04,210 --> 01:22:09,850 Airport incident I think you said that's 1892 01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:12,579 in 2010 yes and 114 oh yeah oh 2014 my 1893 01:22:09,850 --> 01:22:13,840 mistake and then the French situation as 1894 01:22:12,579 --> 01:22:16,869 well because you actually done some 1895 01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:18,819 detailed investigation of that so I'm 1896 01:22:16,869 --> 01:22:21,099 Richard Olin here this is kgr a radio 1897 01:22:18,819 --> 01:22:23,170 we're listening to german journalist 1898 01:22:21,100 --> 01:22:25,450 robert de Fleischer and Roberts websites 1899 01:22:23,170 --> 01:22:28,750 incidentally he's got two of them one is 1900 01:22:25,449 --> 01:22:30,189 XO magazine TV that's XO magazine 1901 01:22:28,750 --> 01:22:33,909 without the e if you're an English 1902 01:22:30,189 --> 01:22:37,029 speaker dot TV and XO politic with a K 1903 01:22:33,909 --> 01:22:39,729 dot org is that correct Robert yes it is 1904 01:22:37,029 --> 01:22:42,880 yeah and Robert is the founder of XO 1905 01:22:39,729 --> 01:22:46,209 politics Germany is the founder of XO 1906 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:48,819 magazine TV as well these are both very 1907 01:22:46,210 --> 01:22:51,550 active and I encourage you to go check 1908 01:22:48,819 --> 01:22:52,299 out his websites we can learn more about 1909 01:22:51,550 --> 01:22:54,279 what's going on 1910 01:22:52,300 --> 01:22:56,019 and if you speak German of course if you 1911 01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:57,788 speak German well if you've got a good 1912 01:22:56,019 --> 01:23:00,369 translator on your website you might be 1913 01:22:57,788 --> 01:23:02,649 able to hack your way through it as I do 1914 01:23:00,368 --> 01:23:05,589 sometimes with foreign language websites 1915 01:23:02,649 --> 01:23:07,839 it's the best that I can do Google has 1916 01:23:05,590 --> 01:23:10,119 their little translating thing on their 1917 01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:12,880 browser so I actually make a lot of use 1918 01:23:10,118 --> 01:23:14,009 of that when I can it's it's not perfect 1919 01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,059 but what can you do 1920 01:23:14,010 --> 01:23:18,130 there's the better one there's a better 1921 01:23:16,059 --> 01:23:21,809 one it's called deep Elcom it's a German 1922 01:23:18,130 --> 01:23:25,029 company I'll like deep learning deep 1923 01:23:21,809 --> 01:23:26,889 Elcom oh go and use that one it's so 1924 01:23:25,029 --> 01:23:27,788 much better than google translator oh 1925 01:23:26,889 --> 01:23:31,868 that's great to know 1926 01:23:27,788 --> 01:23:33,248 deep Elcom thank you Robert yeah well as 1927 01:23:31,868 --> 01:23:34,359 well but anyway we'll be back right 1928 01:23:33,248 --> 01:23:37,569 after this 1929 01:23:34,359 --> 01:23:39,578 on K GRE radio stick around we're back 1930 01:23:37,569 --> 01:23:42,038 I'm Richard Dolan here with German 1931 01:23:39,578 --> 01:23:45,149 journalist Robert Fleischer Robert there 1932 01:23:42,038 --> 01:23:48,179 has been there have been a few UFO 1933 01:23:45,149 --> 01:23:50,788 incidents in recent years that you have 1934 01:23:48,179 --> 01:23:53,139 investigated in Germany and in France 1935 01:23:50,788 --> 01:23:57,219 can we start by talking about the 1936 01:23:53,139 --> 01:23:58,719 incident at the Bremen Airport in 2014 1937 01:23:57,219 --> 01:24:01,328 if you would describe where Bremen is 1938 01:23:58,719 --> 01:24:04,319 and what exactly happened yes Bremen is 1939 01:24:01,328 --> 01:24:07,808 right in top North and corner of Germany 1940 01:24:04,319 --> 01:24:11,198 next to the Danish border in fact and 1941 01:24:07,809 --> 01:24:16,690 that was that's a relatively small 1942 01:24:11,198 --> 01:24:24,129 airport and on January 2 2014 at around 1943 01:24:16,689 --> 01:24:25,868 6 6 a.m. on over 6 p.m. the air traffic 1944 01:24:24,130 --> 01:24:28,420 controller in the control tower of 1945 01:24:25,868 --> 01:24:31,238 Bremen Airport he noticed the strange 1946 01:24:28,420 --> 01:24:33,969 signal on his primary radar and it 1947 01:24:31,238 --> 01:24:37,178 indicated an object around 3 nautical 1948 01:24:33,969 --> 01:24:39,698 miles that's 5.5 kilometers south of the 1949 01:24:37,179 --> 01:24:43,389 runway and the air traffic controller 1950 01:24:39,698 --> 01:24:46,719 then sees the object visually from the 1951 01:24:43,389 --> 01:24:48,670 tower without binoculars and it seems to 1952 01:24:46,719 --> 01:24:50,559 have normal red and green position 1953 01:24:48,670 --> 01:24:53,170 lights he says and a landing light on 1954 01:24:50,559 --> 01:24:54,880 each site but since the object is 1955 01:24:53,170 --> 01:24:58,359 located near the approach zone of the 1956 01:24:54,880 --> 01:25:02,260 airport the Lufthansa and a Lufthansa 1957 01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:04,389 aircraft coming from Munich is asked to 1958 01:25:02,260 --> 01:25:05,619 abort the landing procedure and then to 1959 01:25:04,389 --> 01:25:08,710 restart 1960 01:25:05,619 --> 01:25:10,329 and the the pilot told us that we are on 1961 01:25:08,710 --> 01:25:12,279 a collision course with a helicopter 1962 01:25:10,329 --> 01:25:14,619 that flies unlit and below the radar 1963 01:25:12,279 --> 01:25:16,960 recalls one of the passengers on board 1964 01:25:14,619 --> 01:25:19,210 of that flight in an interview with a 1965 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:22,739 German newspaper and then what's 1966 01:25:19,210 --> 01:25:25,899 interesting this this plan this plane 1967 01:25:22,739 --> 01:25:28,389 has to take off twice the air traffic 1968 01:25:25,899 --> 01:25:32,109 control decides to reroute it to another 1969 01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:34,060 Airport and for safety reasons the air 1970 01:25:32,109 --> 01:25:37,599 traffic will be completely suspended for 1971 01:25:34,060 --> 01:25:39,700 15 minutes the air traffic controller in 1972 01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:43,420 the control room observes the object for 1973 01:25:39,699 --> 01:25:45,489 several minutes as it moves 3.5 nautical 1974 01:25:43,420 --> 01:25:48,130 miles south of the Weiser 1975 01:25:45,489 --> 01:25:49,899 River from the final approach area of 1976 01:25:48,130 --> 01:25:53,050 the airport and apparently along the 1977 01:25:49,899 --> 01:25:55,210 railway wrote to the Razr okay the thing 1978 01:25:53,050 --> 01:25:58,119 is then he loses it out of sight he 1979 01:25:55,210 --> 01:26:00,399 loses a side contact to the object 1980 01:25:58,119 --> 01:26:04,059 that's according to the press officer of 1981 01:26:00,399 --> 01:26:08,199 the air traffic control in in Bremen the 1982 01:26:04,060 --> 01:26:10,360 object at 6:00 at 6:30 p.m. returns 1983 01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:12,340 mm-hmm the air traffic controller has 1984 01:26:10,359 --> 01:26:16,329 visual contact contact again and now 1985 01:26:12,340 --> 01:26:17,980 it's located above a hospital and the 1986 01:26:16,329 --> 01:26:21,550 air traffic controller notifies the 1987 01:26:17,979 --> 01:26:25,719 police and police immediately alerts 1988 01:26:21,550 --> 01:26:29,529 patrol cars that are in the area around 1989 01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:31,659 that time police officers see a strange 1990 01:26:29,529 --> 01:26:33,880 flying object in the area of a country 1991 01:26:31,659 --> 01:26:36,789 of the Cathedral of the Visa Stadium 1992 01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:39,400 they describe it as very bright about 1993 01:26:36,789 --> 01:26:42,010 the size of a helicopter they estimate 1994 01:26:39,399 --> 01:26:44,859 the altitude of about 300 to 400 meters 1995 01:26:42,010 --> 01:26:46,600 and the officers assume that the object 1996 01:26:44,859 --> 01:26:49,509 is about to return to the airport and 1997 01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,579 notify air traffic control and they 1998 01:26:49,510 --> 01:26:52,600 cancel the plan take off of another 1999 01:26:51,579 --> 01:26:56,710 airplane 2000 01:26:52,600 --> 01:27:02,200 scheduled for 6:00 for like five minutes 2001 01:26:56,710 --> 01:27:04,659 to 7:00 p.m. the brain police also asks 2002 01:27:02,199 --> 01:27:07,899 an helicopter squadron from lower saxony 2003 01:27:04,659 --> 01:27:12,720 to to search for the unidentified flying 2004 01:27:07,899 --> 01:27:15,909 object and now it gets interesting this 2005 01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:18,070 police patrol car gets visual contact to 2006 01:27:15,909 --> 01:27:19,359 the unknown flying object in the area of 2007 01:27:18,069 --> 01:27:22,779 Lake Verret 2008 01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:27,029 and the police helicopter from Lower 2009 01:27:22,779 --> 01:27:29,289 Saxony is on site at 7:30 p.m. and 2010 01:27:27,029 --> 01:27:31,779 supports the Bremen officials in their 2011 01:27:29,289 --> 01:27:34,750 search for the flying object but they 2012 01:27:31,779 --> 01:27:37,599 find nothing however the pilot of the 2013 01:27:34,750 --> 01:27:40,600 police helicopter later explains to a 2014 01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:41,800 newspaper we saw something but were not 2015 01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:44,409 sure what it was 2016 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:46,570 the helicopter was very well equipped 2017 01:27:44,408 --> 01:27:48,759 with night-vision goggles and thermal 2018 01:27:46,569 --> 01:27:50,500 imaging equipment but there they say 2019 01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:53,310 there was a lot of light above the city 2020 01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:57,368 center and we had no height information 2021 01:27:53,310 --> 01:27:59,889 in a couple of minutes later like nine 2022 01:27:57,368 --> 01:28:02,799 minutes to 9:00 p.m. the police 2023 01:27:59,889 --> 01:28:05,260 helicopter reports the sighting of an 2024 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:08,500 unlit flying object to the air traffic 2025 01:28:05,260 --> 01:28:10,869 control in unlit flying object and you 2026 01:28:08,500 --> 01:28:12,880 know without light yes yes yeah the air 2027 01:28:10,868 --> 01:28:15,118 traffic controllers then instruct 2028 01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:18,520 another aircraft coming in from Paris 2029 01:28:15,118 --> 01:28:20,349 that's already on its final approach to 2030 01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,889 the airport to abort the landing and 2031 01:28:20,350 --> 01:28:28,570 take off and that plane will later land 2032 01:28:23,889 --> 01:28:30,609 safely in Bremen and then like five 2033 01:28:28,569 --> 01:28:33,189 minutes to 9:00 p.m. the police 2034 01:28:30,609 --> 01:28:37,799 helicopter stops its search for the 2035 01:28:33,189 --> 01:28:41,259 unidentified flying objects and the 2036 01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:42,810 distance that this object has traveled 2037 01:28:41,260 --> 01:28:47,469 in the meantime has later been 2038 01:28:42,810 --> 01:28:49,810 calculated and in summary it few quite a 2039 01:28:47,469 --> 01:28:52,239 bit in the air it was sometimes 2040 01:28:49,810 --> 01:28:55,330 enlightened some sometimes not there 2041 01:28:52,238 --> 01:28:59,049 wasn't always visual contact and also 2042 01:28:55,329 --> 01:29:02,380 the the appearance described by several 2043 01:28:59,050 --> 01:29:05,260 witnesses is quite different it's not 2044 01:29:02,380 --> 01:29:08,289 it's not navigation lights in every 2045 01:29:05,260 --> 01:29:12,610 single case you know so this was really 2046 01:29:08,289 --> 01:29:15,488 difficult to difficult sighting for also 2047 01:29:12,609 --> 01:29:18,299 for the airspace security at the airport 2048 01:29:15,488 --> 01:29:23,049 and in the middle of the nights on 2049 01:29:18,300 --> 01:29:26,909 January 7 the UFO German UFO database 2050 01:29:23,050 --> 01:29:29,980 that's a website for - Dayton Banque de 2051 01:29:26,908 --> 01:29:32,319 they have a website where you can report 2052 01:29:29,979 --> 01:29:32,859 UFO incidents and they receive a 2053 01:29:32,319 --> 01:29:35,920 sighting 2054 01:29:32,859 --> 01:29:40,689 report directly from an employee of the 2055 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:43,630 Bremen airport they don't you know 2056 01:29:40,689 --> 01:29:46,238 nobody knows who he is but he says more 2057 01:29:43,630 --> 01:29:50,079 than 10 witnesses observed a UFO between 2058 01:29:46,238 --> 01:29:52,118 6:30 and 9:30 p.m. unknown flying object 2059 01:29:50,079 --> 01:29:54,519 on the radar temporary closure of 2060 01:29:52,118 --> 01:29:57,549 airspace flights had to be rerouted 2061 01:29:54,520 --> 01:30:01,330 helicopter search searched the sky above 2062 01:29:57,550 --> 01:30:05,260 Bremen no one knows who that person is 2063 01:30:01,329 --> 01:30:09,130 who filed that that report but it's 2064 01:30:05,260 --> 01:30:10,929 really an interesting case because there 2065 01:30:09,130 --> 01:30:13,150 were so many contradictions afterwards 2066 01:30:10,929 --> 01:30:15,760 you would know was it a real radar 2067 01:30:13,149 --> 01:30:19,000 contact or not in the first press 2068 01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:22,840 release the reputation 2069 01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:26,109 use out a news agency German press 2070 01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:28,690 agency DPR they said that it a fish that 2071 01:30:26,109 --> 01:30:31,420 it appeared on the radar screen and 2072 01:30:28,689 --> 01:30:34,509 later on they withdrew that statement 2073 01:30:31,420 --> 01:30:36,429 and said no it didn't and so it was 2074 01:30:34,510 --> 01:30:38,829 really not clear whether it appeared 2075 01:30:36,429 --> 01:30:41,020 there or not and the chief press officer 2076 01:30:38,829 --> 01:30:45,010 of the German air traffic control said 2077 01:30:41,020 --> 01:30:51,610 well it was only visible within 2 radar 2078 01:30:45,010 --> 01:30:53,889 rounds so in that they did get something 2079 01:30:51,609 --> 01:30:55,839 on the radar but they wouldn't speak of 2080 01:30:53,889 --> 01:30:58,329 it as a radar contact that's how they 2081 01:30:55,840 --> 01:31:00,039 said it the object as such was not 2082 01:30:58,329 --> 01:31:04,479 located on the radar according to our 2083 01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:07,689 standards but it they saw it visually 2084 01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:09,488 but they got and they did above the the 2085 01:31:07,689 --> 01:31:11,559 the airport and you said and then 2086 01:31:09,488 --> 01:31:13,419 described as the size roughly of a 2087 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:18,820 helicopter so I would think that would 2088 01:31:13,420 --> 01:31:21,219 rule out excuse me um like commercial 2089 01:31:18,819 --> 01:31:24,719 drone yes that ordinary people would 2090 01:31:21,219 --> 01:31:29,198 have this is really quite large yes and 2091 01:31:24,719 --> 01:31:31,600 and and that's also you know interesting 2092 01:31:29,198 --> 01:31:33,368 how the German press reacted after after 2093 01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:37,600 this incident because now suddenly you 2094 01:31:33,368 --> 01:31:40,630 have like a serious UFO encounter in 2095 01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:43,750 above a German Airport yes 2096 01:31:40,630 --> 01:31:46,989 UFO in the in the real meaning of the 2097 01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:49,389 term unidentified flying object you know 2098 01:31:46,988 --> 01:31:51,129 and then day suddenly you know it's so 2099 01:31:49,389 --> 01:31:51,788 it's so severe that they even have to 2100 01:31:51,130 --> 01:31:54,099 interrupt 2101 01:31:51,788 --> 01:31:56,639 air traffic for for a couple of minutes 2102 01:31:54,099 --> 01:31:59,260 they have to reroute planes to other 2103 01:31:56,639 --> 01:32:04,359 well and and in airports 2104 01:31:59,260 --> 01:32:07,360 danger to at least one aircraft yes so 2105 01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:10,268 what the landing procedure during this 2106 01:32:07,359 --> 01:32:13,149 so so so what's interesting if the 2107 01:32:10,269 --> 01:32:15,880 German media is suddenly confronted with 2108 01:32:13,149 --> 01:32:17,888 a UFO case that's that's you know stuff 2109 01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:20,019 that you usually only hear from China or 2110 01:32:17,889 --> 01:32:23,739 whatever you know and we certainly have 2111 01:32:20,019 --> 01:32:25,630 it at your at your doorstep you know and 2112 01:32:23,738 --> 01:32:28,448 now it was really interesting to watch 2113 01:32:25,630 --> 01:32:30,760 how they would react and the first 2114 01:32:28,448 --> 01:32:33,939 reaction was that well there was at that 2115 01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:37,869 time there was a skeptic from a known 2116 01:32:33,939 --> 01:32:41,710 UFO researcher known to be a skeptic but 2117 01:32:37,868 --> 01:32:44,408 skeptic skeptic you know who had a good 2118 01:32:41,710 --> 01:32:46,359 good connections to the media and and he 2119 01:32:44,408 --> 01:32:49,000 said well this was most certainly only 2120 01:32:46,359 --> 01:32:52,328 what we call a radar angel which is like 2121 01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:55,149 some sort of irani erroneous radar 2122 01:32:52,328 --> 01:32:57,250 return that reflects from a house or a 2123 01:32:55,149 --> 01:32:59,170 tree or something and sometimes that 2124 01:32:57,250 --> 01:33:01,599 shows up and that's what we call radar 2125 01:32:59,170 --> 01:33:03,639 angel that must have been that even 2126 01:33:01,599 --> 01:33:05,500 though they said they saw it visually 2127 01:33:03,639 --> 01:33:06,880 you know but still you know the German 2128 01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:09,189 media you know they didn't care they 2129 01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:13,630 reported okay case closed 2130 01:33:09,189 --> 01:33:17,259 it was only erroneous radar signal then 2131 01:33:13,630 --> 01:33:18,788 the spokesperson of the German air 2132 01:33:17,260 --> 01:33:24,610 traffic control said no no it was also 2133 01:33:18,788 --> 01:33:27,009 seen visually and and also the we later 2134 01:33:24,609 --> 01:33:31,808 found out the helicopter crew they saw 2135 01:33:27,010 --> 01:33:35,320 an object that was unlit an unlit object 2136 01:33:31,809 --> 01:33:36,639 that they that they that they discovered 2137 01:33:35,319 --> 01:33:39,210 but they couldn't find out what it was 2138 01:33:36,639 --> 01:33:43,510 they could you know they just saw it for 2139 01:33:39,210 --> 01:33:47,710 for a short term and I and I asked the 2140 01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:49,889 police spokesman how exactly did the 2141 01:33:47,710 --> 01:33:53,469 helicopter crew describe the object 2142 01:33:49,889 --> 01:33:55,359 since they say did this unlit object 2143 01:33:53,469 --> 01:33:57,130 forced the air-traffic control to stop 2144 01:33:55,359 --> 01:33:59,380 the landing of an incoming craft so it 2145 01:33:57,130 --> 01:34:00,449 must have been something right and he 2146 01:33:59,380 --> 01:34:02,219 said we are not coming 2147 01:34:00,448 --> 01:34:04,738 on this this is the subject of ongoing 2148 01:34:02,219 --> 01:34:07,050 criminal proceedings 2149 01:34:04,738 --> 01:34:08,488 so it's interesting you know there's 2150 01:34:07,050 --> 01:34:14,130 something that they don't say what it is 2151 01:34:08,488 --> 01:34:17,549 the later on the couple of days later on 2152 01:34:14,130 --> 01:34:19,949 January 21st the Bremen police and the 2153 01:34:17,550 --> 01:34:23,520 public prosecutor present their findings 2154 01:34:19,948 --> 01:34:28,109 about the UFO on at the Bremen Airport 2155 01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:30,600 and their actual investigation results 2156 01:34:28,109 --> 01:34:33,029 are just nothing you know they're more 2157 01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:35,940 focused on what it was not you know they 2158 01:34:33,029 --> 01:34:38,460 say they evaluated more than 50 tips and 2159 01:34:35,939 --> 01:34:40,769 various witness interviews and the 2160 01:34:38,460 --> 01:34:43,500 police assesses the situation as follows 2161 01:34:40,770 --> 01:34:45,510 some citizens may have observed and 2162 01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:51,170 described the police helicopter used 2163 01:34:45,510 --> 01:34:56,070 that is true some citizens did but the 2164 01:34:51,170 --> 01:35:01,079 they say it must have been a drone they 2165 01:34:56,069 --> 01:35:03,689 say the still unknown operator of the 2166 01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:05,429 unidentified flying object is likely to 2167 01:35:03,689 --> 01:35:08,460 come from the model aircraft or 2168 01:35:05,429 --> 01:35:10,679 multicopter seen the device was probably 2169 01:35:08,460 --> 01:35:16,710 steered by a professional hobby model 2170 01:35:10,679 --> 01:35:18,840 airplane from was the device was 2171 01:35:16,710 --> 01:35:20,609 probably a professionally hobby model 2172 01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:22,619 airplane that was steered from a 2173 01:35:20,609 --> 01:35:24,839 computer at the desk or from the open 2174 01:35:22,619 --> 01:35:26,550 countryside which is technically 2175 01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,469 feasible under certain certain 2176 01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:30,449 circumstances but was it really so 2177 01:35:28,469 --> 01:35:34,890 because we remember the police is 2178 01:35:30,448 --> 01:35:38,849 unaware they they saw something an unlit 2179 01:35:34,890 --> 01:35:40,619 object they stopped the they stopped air 2180 01:35:38,850 --> 01:35:42,960 traffic for quite some time 2181 01:35:40,619 --> 01:35:46,500 you know and they didn't fine and you 2182 01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:48,210 know they said we suspect we suspect the 2183 01:35:46,500 --> 01:35:50,969 unknown operator to come from the 2184 01:35:48,210 --> 01:35:53,369 multicopter scene from the model 2185 01:35:50,969 --> 01:35:55,619 aircraft or multicopter scene but for 2186 01:35:53,369 --> 01:35:57,689 the german media case is closed again 2187 01:35:55,619 --> 01:36:00,479 you know you suddenly you have news 2188 01:35:57,689 --> 01:36:03,119 reports popping up saying case closed 2189 01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:05,969 it was a drone we are sure police says 2190 01:36:03,119 --> 01:36:07,960 we assure it was a drone explained 2191 01:36:05,970 --> 01:36:09,909 wherever you go and we're gonna get to 2192 01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:12,069 the French cases in a moment where it's 2193 01:36:09,909 --> 01:36:15,220 the same thing they do exactly things as 2194 01:36:12,069 --> 01:36:17,259 drones but yeah it seems like there's 2195 01:36:15,220 --> 01:36:19,119 much more going on with this Bremen case 2196 01:36:17,260 --> 01:36:21,190 and maybe it is a drone I mean I I 2197 01:36:19,119 --> 01:36:23,619 suppose it's possible maybe it would be 2198 01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:26,889 a very large and high-performance drone 2199 01:36:23,619 --> 01:36:30,970 it would seem to me yeah well in the 2200 01:36:26,890 --> 01:36:33,910 flight characteristics described you 2201 01:36:30,970 --> 01:36:35,920 know didn't really resemble what we - 2202 01:36:33,909 --> 01:36:38,859 what we usually call a brief UFO 2203 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:42,789 sighting with erroneous this could be a 2204 01:36:38,859 --> 01:36:44,979 US military type of operation I'm trying 2205 01:36:42,789 --> 01:36:46,869 to think what the US may have up in the 2206 01:36:44,979 --> 01:36:49,809 northern part of Germany there and I 2207 01:36:46,869 --> 01:36:51,189 actually don't recall what what basis 2208 01:36:49,810 --> 01:36:52,539 are what operations might have been 2209 01:36:51,189 --> 01:36:55,359 responsible for this did anyone look 2210 01:36:52,539 --> 01:36:58,600 into that I think most of the US bases 2211 01:36:55,359 --> 01:37:01,779 are more in the center of south of 2212 01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:03,820 Germany Bavaria bottom to there and 2213 01:37:01,779 --> 01:37:05,859 stuff I mean you know we can of course 2214 01:37:03,819 --> 01:37:08,469 we can make all kinds of assumptions of 2215 01:37:05,859 --> 01:37:11,109 what this object was it may very well be 2216 01:37:08,470 --> 01:37:13,510 it was a drone the the fact is just that 2217 01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:15,399 you know the police said we suspect it 2218 01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:18,159 was grown and then on March 24 the 2219 01:37:15,399 --> 01:37:20,170 police closes its investigation without 2220 01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:23,529 any results they have no clue what it 2221 01:37:20,170 --> 01:37:25,390 was you know but for the German for the 2222 01:37:23,529 --> 01:37:27,340 German public it's clear that it was a 2223 01:37:25,390 --> 01:37:30,670 drone and you know and it made me think 2224 01:37:27,340 --> 01:37:33,430 that you know even back then in January 2225 01:37:30,670 --> 01:37:35,109 2014 when I looked into this case you 2226 01:37:33,430 --> 01:37:37,150 know and I talked to the German air 2227 01:37:35,109 --> 01:37:39,009 traffic control and all this you know I 2228 01:37:37,149 --> 01:37:45,069 thought okay what if this is like the 2229 01:37:39,010 --> 01:37:47,770 new way how they would sell authentic 2230 01:37:45,069 --> 01:37:51,159 real UFO sightings to the public as just 2231 01:37:47,770 --> 01:37:53,440 being some drone interferences you know 2232 01:37:51,159 --> 01:37:55,449 and I just thought is because as I 2233 01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:57,429 imagine just imagine you know I even 2234 01:37:55,449 --> 01:38:01,119 back then I thought just imagine what 2235 01:37:57,430 --> 01:38:04,000 would happen if a UFO shows up in a very 2236 01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:05,619 sensitive airspace and you couldn't tell 2237 01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:09,729 this to the church to the general public 2238 01:38:05,619 --> 01:38:12,189 right that there was a some thing you 2239 01:38:09,729 --> 01:38:13,629 have no control of that just pops up in 2240 01:38:12,189 --> 01:38:15,879 the airspace and you don't know what it 2241 01:38:13,630 --> 01:38:17,319 is and and then it suddenly disappears 2242 01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:18,440 and you still have no idea what it is 2243 01:38:17,319 --> 01:38:23,259 you know there 2244 01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:26,089 in January 2014 and then in October 2014 2245 01:38:23,260 --> 01:38:28,010 something extraordinary happened in or 2246 01:38:26,090 --> 01:38:29,989 started happening in France you ever 2247 01:38:28,010 --> 01:38:33,739 heard of this I called it the drone 2248 01:38:29,989 --> 01:38:37,639 plague I remember this it made the news 2249 01:38:33,739 --> 01:38:41,569 even over here in the US for for a time 2250 01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:43,579 and it was a wave of unusual UFO 2251 01:38:41,569 --> 01:38:45,979 sightings I believe they occurred if I'm 2252 01:38:43,579 --> 01:38:49,340 not mistaken near nuclear facilities or 2253 01:38:45,979 --> 01:38:51,259 other sensitive facilities in France and 2254 01:38:49,340 --> 01:38:54,230 am i right in thinking they were all 2255 01:38:51,260 --> 01:38:56,960 described as drazen's drones it's I mean 2256 01:38:54,229 --> 01:38:59,389 what you need to understand is France is 2257 01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:01,899 unlike any other country in Europe so 2258 01:38:59,390 --> 01:39:04,610 dependent on nuclear energy they have 2259 01:39:01,899 --> 01:39:09,969 let's say that they've given all their 2260 01:39:04,609 --> 01:39:13,069 nuclear or all their energy their energy 2261 01:39:09,970 --> 01:39:15,920 production scheme is mainly nuclear 2262 01:39:13,069 --> 01:39:18,949 energies like 90% of the I don't know I 2263 01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:21,199 mean it's like mainly powered by nuclear 2264 01:39:18,949 --> 01:39:24,800 energy you know so they have lots of 2265 01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:26,569 lots of nuclear power plants and and all 2266 01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:29,180 those nuclear power plants they are all 2267 01:39:26,569 --> 01:39:32,599 operated by a national organization 2268 01:39:29,180 --> 01:39:36,740 called electricity to force electricity 2269 01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:38,690 of France EDF and and and they are they 2270 01:39:36,739 --> 01:39:40,429 oversee the correct functioning and 2271 01:39:38,689 --> 01:39:43,699 security and stuff and they operate 2272 01:39:40,430 --> 01:39:46,250 those nuclear bases and in October 2014 2273 01:39:43,699 --> 01:39:48,649 the media started reporting on an 2274 01:39:46,250 --> 01:39:52,069 apparent wave of drone sightings over 2275 01:39:48,649 --> 01:39:54,829 French nuclear power plants even on the 2276 01:39:52,069 --> 01:39:57,590 German media it was even on like one 2277 01:39:54,829 --> 01:40:01,760 large German media organizations 2278 01:39:57,590 --> 01:40:05,960 reported that as of October on October 2279 01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:09,530 13 there was a drone they always said 2280 01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:12,619 drone cited above the blade a nuclear 2281 01:40:09,529 --> 01:40:15,229 power plant near Bordeaux and above the 2282 01:40:12,619 --> 01:40:18,199 nose your Sen nuclear power plant on 2283 01:40:15,229 --> 01:40:21,109 October 14 that's one day later above 2284 01:40:18,199 --> 01:40:23,840 the Cottenham power station near the 2285 01:40:21,109 --> 01:40:26,869 German border on October 19 above the 2286 01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:30,670 nuclear sites of shows Gravlin Luo 2287 01:40:26,869 --> 01:40:31,849 bougie and again above nor co-sin and 2288 01:40:30,670 --> 01:40:35,409 one 2289 01:40:31,850 --> 01:40:39,010 later again above lucu gee 2290 01:40:35,409 --> 01:40:41,750 may I ask you before yes sir are these 2291 01:40:39,010 --> 01:40:46,159 drone UFO sightings are they scattered 2292 01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:49,189 throughout France particularly that's 2293 01:40:46,159 --> 01:40:51,889 the point the fact that on Sunday 19 2294 01:40:49,189 --> 01:40:54,409 October 19 alone four nuclear power 2295 01:40:51,890 --> 01:40:56,840 plants were affected which are very far 2296 01:40:54,409 --> 01:40:59,029 apart you know it makes safety experts 2297 01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:01,819 think what is it is this a large-scale 2298 01:40:59,029 --> 01:41:04,460 action you know they start to to to 2299 01:41:01,819 --> 01:41:07,399 suspect are those what are those is this 2300 01:41:04,460 --> 01:41:09,439 Greenpeace you know the French mass 2301 01:41:07,399 --> 01:41:11,839 media quickly identified the suspect 2302 01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:13,729 green pieces because Greenpeace likes to 2303 01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:16,579 fly over nuclear power plants with a 2304 01:41:13,729 --> 01:41:18,889 drone to show that they that they are 2305 01:41:16,579 --> 01:41:21,019 vulnerable to possible air attacks and 2306 01:41:18,890 --> 01:41:22,760 just recently they crashed a drone by 2307 01:41:21,020 --> 01:41:24,380 the way just reads just a couple of 2308 01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:30,100 weeks ago they crashed a drone into a 2309 01:41:24,380 --> 01:41:32,440 French power plant to to demonstrate 2310 01:41:30,100 --> 01:41:36,490 intentionally intentionally 2311 01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:39,019 and so they said it must be Greenpeace 2312 01:41:36,489 --> 01:41:41,399 but an activist of the Environmental 2313 01:41:39,020 --> 01:41:42,710 Protection Agency 2314 01:41:41,399 --> 01:41:45,019 [Music] 2315 01:41:42,710 --> 01:41:48,439 you know they had already drawn 2316 01:41:45,020 --> 01:41:51,260 attention to safety deficiencies back in 2317 01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:53,000 2012 so and they also denied that they 2318 01:41:51,260 --> 01:41:54,829 had anything to do with the overflights 2319 01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:58,279 they said we have nothing to do with it 2320 01:41:54,829 --> 01:42:00,859 Greenpeace denied us Greenpeace denied 2321 01:41:58,279 --> 01:42:02,479 they had exactly Greenpeace denied they 2322 01:42:00,859 --> 01:42:04,699 had anything to do with this and they 2323 01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:06,529 said and we are very concerned about the 2324 01:42:04,699 --> 01:42:10,369 repeated over flights over the nuclear 2325 01:42:06,529 --> 01:42:13,939 power plants and and this whole thing 2326 01:42:10,369 --> 01:42:16,960 continues this is not just in October it 2327 01:42:13,939 --> 01:42:20,799 continues all through November December 2328 01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:25,399 you have when this whole thing becomes 2329 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:28,869 public in October mid October you have a 2330 01:42:25,399 --> 01:42:32,059 fall frenzy lots of activity going on in 2331 01:42:28,869 --> 01:42:33,319 at the side of the politicians in in 2332 01:42:32,060 --> 01:42:37,520 France you have the French interior 2333 01:42:33,319 --> 01:42:41,840 minister gamma has nerve who announces 2334 01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:45,340 on October 30th that they have put in 2335 01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:49,460 place devices to neutralize drones 2336 01:42:45,340 --> 01:42:52,190 investigations are already underway that 2337 01:42:49,460 --> 01:42:54,349 day however they don't detail how this 2338 01:42:52,189 --> 01:42:55,819 neutralization should take place because 2339 01:42:54,349 --> 01:42:57,590 it's not even clear yet who is 2340 01:42:55,819 --> 01:43:00,288 responsible for the overflights 2341 01:42:57,590 --> 01:43:04,670 and what exactly flew around there and 2342 01:43:00,288 --> 01:43:05,599 then two more power plants are over 2343 01:43:04,670 --> 01:43:09,460 flown by 2344 01:43:05,599 --> 01:43:13,130 supposed drones who are very who are 2345 01:43:09,460 --> 01:43:14,929 very far apart and then it goes on and 2346 01:43:13,130 --> 01:43:18,170 on and on and it's like almost all of 2347 01:43:14,929 --> 01:43:20,779 the all of the French nuclear power 2348 01:43:18,170 --> 01:43:24,380 plants are over flown by so-called 2349 01:43:20,779 --> 01:43:26,479 drones and actually I didn't only look 2350 01:43:24,380 --> 01:43:29,690 at the the news reports in the French 2351 01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:32,238 local media and national newspapers but 2352 01:43:29,689 --> 01:43:33,888 I also had a look at the of course at 2353 01:43:32,238 --> 01:43:38,118 the original press release by 2354 01:43:33,889 --> 01:43:40,340 electricity to false and what it always 2355 01:43:38,118 --> 01:43:46,549 said in there because I was wondering 2356 01:43:40,340 --> 01:43:48,078 you know they they described drones they 2357 01:43:46,550 --> 01:43:50,179 said they were small in size and 2358 01:43:48,078 --> 01:43:52,038 commercially available however some 2359 01:43:50,179 --> 01:43:53,658 people who saw the drones they said they 2360 01:43:52,038 --> 01:43:56,840 were actually big they had a huge 2361 01:43:53,658 --> 01:44:00,229 spotlight that lit up the whole zone and 2362 01:43:56,840 --> 01:44:04,880 the whole thing you know one drone was 2363 01:44:00,229 --> 01:44:06,169 supposed to was allegedly flying above a 2364 01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:09,019 nuclear power plant in weather 2365 01:44:06,170 --> 01:44:11,059 conditions that are completely opposite 2366 01:44:09,019 --> 01:44:12,980 to what a drone is capable to do you 2367 01:44:11,059 --> 01:44:14,960 know I've heard this as well some of the 2368 01:44:12,979 --> 01:44:18,500 some of those details did seep out into 2369 01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:21,019 the english-speaking news media was I 2370 01:44:18,500 --> 01:44:22,849 distinctly recall that there were a 2371 01:44:21,019 --> 01:44:25,070 couple of eyewitnesses at least 2372 01:44:22,849 --> 01:44:27,279 allegedly that were saying as you're 2373 01:44:25,069 --> 01:44:30,500 describing here that these objects were 2374 01:44:27,279 --> 01:44:32,719 pretty large and were some of them some 2375 01:44:30,500 --> 01:44:35,960 of them not only and were able to fly 2376 01:44:32,719 --> 01:44:39,170 and under very difficult conditions hmm 2377 01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:41,750 and there was one night when five 2378 01:44:39,170 --> 01:44:44,899 nuclear power plants were over flown by 2379 01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:46,819 supposed drones which were although if 2380 01:44:44,899 --> 01:44:48,948 you look at the map all over scattered 2381 01:44:46,819 --> 01:44:51,439 all over France you know at the very 2382 01:44:48,948 --> 01:44:54,049 same time so this must have been a 2383 01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:56,058 coordinated effort by someone but I 2384 01:44:54,050 --> 01:44:57,739 looked at the original press release and 2385 01:44:56,059 --> 01:44:59,929 in the original press release from 2386 01:44:57,738 --> 01:45:02,839 electricity to force 2387 01:44:59,929 --> 01:45:06,859 they don't say it was a drone they say 2388 01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:09,860 they call it an arrow Neff assimil a 2389 01:45:06,859 --> 01:45:12,710 blue and horn so that means an aircraft 2390 01:45:09,859 --> 01:45:14,630 similar to a drone they don't say it was 2391 01:45:12,710 --> 01:45:18,289 a drone they say it was something that 2392 01:45:14,630 --> 01:45:20,480 seemed to be like a drone and then this 2393 01:45:18,289 --> 01:45:23,210 whole thing goes on and on and on and we 2394 01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:27,198 also we you know we talked to experts in 2395 01:45:23,210 --> 01:45:29,359 drones and multicopters and and he have 2396 01:45:27,198 --> 01:45:33,799 a friend who has was actually the boss 2397 01:45:29,359 --> 01:45:36,259 of a company that does commercial drone 2398 01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:37,969 flights with cameras on board for for 2399 01:45:36,260 --> 01:45:40,640 television and stuff and and he 2400 01:45:37,969 --> 01:45:42,948 explained to me that well if you just 2401 01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:45,739 look at the one example with this huge 2402 01:45:42,948 --> 01:45:47,329 spotlight that was on board you know how 2403 01:45:45,738 --> 01:45:50,149 would that even be possible on on a 2404 01:45:47,329 --> 01:45:52,939 drone that is you know there's they have 2405 01:45:50,149 --> 01:45:55,698 small batteries that cannot be too heavy 2406 01:45:52,939 --> 01:45:59,149 because then the flight capacity would 2407 01:45:55,698 --> 01:46:01,908 be very limited and then even if they 2408 01:45:59,149 --> 01:46:04,670 would have to power as an additional 2409 01:46:01,908 --> 01:46:08,149 spotlight that sets so much light that 2410 01:46:04,670 --> 01:46:10,569 the whole area is illuminated it's just 2411 01:46:08,149 --> 01:46:16,809 it seems very unlikely that this was a 2412 01:46:10,569 --> 01:46:22,238 drone and then at sometime in January 2413 01:46:16,810 --> 01:46:25,820 22nd a director of a nuclear power plant 2414 01:46:22,238 --> 01:46:27,709 he's he was the the head of the blade a 2415 01:46:25,819 --> 01:46:32,269 nuclear power plant in southwestern 2416 01:46:27,710 --> 01:46:34,550 France he presented the results for 2014 2417 01:46:32,270 --> 01:46:37,460 and plans for the new year and there was 2418 01:46:34,550 --> 01:46:40,579 a press conference and he was asked 2419 01:46:37,460 --> 01:46:42,469 about drones and if there was anything 2420 01:46:40,579 --> 01:46:46,130 new about the drone that had flown over 2421 01:46:42,469 --> 01:46:48,890 his nuclear reactor in October 2014 and 2422 01:46:46,130 --> 01:46:50,810 then he said surprisingly he said we 2423 01:46:48,890 --> 01:46:53,270 haven't seen a drone here we have seen a 2424 01:46:50,810 --> 01:46:56,780 UFO and there has been no effect on the 2425 01:46:53,270 --> 01:47:00,560 safety of our installations you know so 2426 01:46:56,779 --> 01:47:03,769 so he so he really says he was not a 2427 01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:06,860 drone it was a UFO you know this whole 2428 01:47:03,770 --> 01:47:09,199 thing who was this man yeah his name is 2429 01:47:06,859 --> 01:47:11,899 Pascal Pisani and what was his position 2430 01:47:09,198 --> 01:47:12,829 he he was the head of the he was the 2431 01:47:11,899 --> 01:47:14,809 head of the plane 2432 01:47:12,829 --> 01:47:17,930 nuclear power plant in southwestern 2433 01:47:14,810 --> 01:47:20,420 France so he's one of one of the heads 2434 01:47:17,930 --> 01:47:23,539 of a nuclear power plant stating UFO 2435 01:47:20,420 --> 01:47:26,869 it's not it's not he says it's not a 2436 01:47:23,539 --> 01:47:29,899 drone it was a UFO you know and we have 2437 01:47:26,869 --> 01:47:32,869 seen a UFO that's what he says it's 2438 01:47:29,899 --> 01:47:36,170 gonna be City and of me Jarek an 2439 01:47:32,869 --> 01:47:38,750 official a security the design Stannis 2440 01:47:36,170 --> 01:47:40,520 young and if you if you if you think 2441 01:47:38,750 --> 01:47:43,609 about it you know in it's more or less 2442 01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:46,190 logical to assume that if the National 2443 01:47:43,609 --> 01:47:53,779 operator of all the nuclear power plants 2444 01:47:46,189 --> 01:47:56,419 like a one very strategic important P 2445 01:47:53,779 --> 01:47:58,519 here of their of France you know 2446 01:47:56,420 --> 01:48:01,760 what would be the public reaction in 2447 01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:03,320 France if the operator of those nuclear 2448 01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:06,590 power plants would freely admit that 2449 01:48:03,319 --> 01:48:08,269 they're being overflown by strange 2450 01:48:06,590 --> 01:48:10,909 objects they don't know where they come 2451 01:48:08,270 --> 01:48:13,690 from and what would it what would be the 2452 01:48:10,909 --> 01:48:16,099 reaction you know so you see this drone 2453 01:48:13,689 --> 01:48:18,529 explanation it actually came in quite 2454 01:48:16,100 --> 01:48:20,870 handy to them to say well it was it 2455 01:48:18,529 --> 01:48:23,389 looked like drone so they already kind 2456 01:48:20,869 --> 01:48:26,079 of suggested it was a drone so that 2457 01:48:23,390 --> 01:48:28,310 people wouldn't would start to ask 2458 01:48:26,079 --> 01:48:30,289 complicated questions you know you know 2459 01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:32,840 and I think this imagines this is very 2460 01:48:30,289 --> 01:48:34,279 politically sensitive in France it is in 2461 01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:36,619 a country like France that is so 2462 01:48:34,279 --> 01:48:39,349 dependent on nuclear power especially 2463 01:48:36,619 --> 01:48:45,849 and then this whole thing culminated by 2464 01:48:39,350 --> 01:48:50,900 the way in in January of - of 2015 when 2465 01:48:45,850 --> 01:48:54,740 you when drones over flew a military 2466 01:48:50,899 --> 01:48:57,559 base in brittany britannia which is has 2467 01:48:54,739 --> 01:49:01,639 atomic submarines of the french navy are 2468 01:48:57,560 --> 01:49:05,840 stationed and they have 380 atomic bombs 2469 01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:07,970 there and this ultra sensitive place you 2470 01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:10,310 just don't you don't just fly in with a 2471 01:49:07,970 --> 01:49:12,530 hobby drone you know and and if you do 2472 01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:15,320 then you only do it once and then you'll 2473 01:49:12,529 --> 01:49:18,229 end up in jail but this has in fact 2474 01:49:15,319 --> 01:49:20,840 happened without anybody who was 2475 01:49:18,229 --> 01:49:23,809 arrested they didn't find who was 2476 01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:26,480 responsible for it those objects flying 2477 01:49:23,810 --> 01:49:28,610 objects were registered by they call 2478 01:49:26,479 --> 01:49:31,329 security devices and observed by 2479 01:49:28,609 --> 01:49:35,659 security personnel and they showed up in 2480 01:49:31,329 --> 01:49:37,609 above that military no-fly zone just 2481 01:49:35,659 --> 01:49:40,069 when one of the nuclear submarines was 2482 01:49:37,609 --> 01:49:44,559 supposed to perform a maneuver so this 2483 01:49:40,069 --> 01:49:47,840 looks like some kind of observation or 2484 01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:51,710 whatever was going on there a local 2485 01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:53,329 newspaper described that this incident 2486 01:49:51,710 --> 01:49:54,590 has led to an impressive military 2487 01:49:53,329 --> 01:49:57,319 presence afterwards 2488 01:49:54,590 --> 01:50:00,170 search helicopters dozens of Marines 2489 01:49:57,319 --> 01:50:03,889 were mobilized they calmed the area they 2490 01:50:00,170 --> 01:50:06,350 carried out vehicle controls they looked 2491 01:50:03,890 --> 01:50:10,780 for the drone pilots for several hours 2492 01:50:06,350 --> 01:50:13,310 they didn't find anyone and I mean this 2493 01:50:10,779 --> 01:50:16,939 just to think about it you know that 2494 01:50:13,310 --> 01:50:19,789 there's unknown flying objects above the 2495 01:50:16,939 --> 01:50:21,859 largest or the most important one of the 2496 01:50:19,789 --> 01:50:25,460 most important military bases military 2497 01:50:21,859 --> 01:50:28,729 installations in France and no trace of 2498 01:50:25,460 --> 01:50:30,619 who is responsible for it 2499 01:50:28,729 --> 01:50:32,779 I think this is a fascinating and this 2500 01:50:30,619 --> 01:50:36,140 is contemporary we're talking 2014-2015 2501 01:50:32,779 --> 01:50:37,609 yes perhaps I don't want to put the 2502 01:50:36,140 --> 01:50:40,460 pressure on you but maybe you can write 2503 01:50:37,609 --> 01:50:42,619 an article on this and put it out on the 2504 01:50:40,460 --> 01:50:44,480 web so we can actually read a kind of a 2505 01:50:42,619 --> 01:50:47,479 comprehensive analysis of it I think it 2506 01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:49,699 would be very interesting well I wrote 2507 01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:51,769 several articles on it on my website 2508 01:50:49,699 --> 01:50:53,720 Exopolitics dark because with updates 2509 01:50:51,770 --> 01:50:56,060 and stuff but it's all in German and you 2510 01:50:53,720 --> 01:50:57,650 know I just I just have no time to sit 2511 01:50:56,060 --> 01:51:03,980 down and translate all this into English 2512 01:50:57,649 --> 01:51:05,750 I think other other but Robert that's 2513 01:51:03,979 --> 01:51:09,049 all we have time for tonight it's been 2514 01:51:05,750 --> 01:51:10,819 an absolute enlightening experience to 2515 01:51:09,050 --> 01:51:13,909 talk with you about German ufology and 2516 01:51:10,819 --> 01:51:16,099 European UFOs and and all the detail 2517 01:51:13,909 --> 01:51:18,649 that you've gone into we're much better 2518 01:51:16,100 --> 01:51:20,750 for hearing what you've got to say again 2519 01:51:18,649 --> 01:51:21,799 I would just remind listeners if they 2520 01:51:20,750 --> 01:51:24,770 want to learn more about Robert 2521 01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:26,119 Fleischer please go to XO magazine TV 2522 01:51:24,770 --> 01:51:30,610 that's excellent magazine without the e 2523 01:51:26,119 --> 01:51:32,989 dot TV XO politique with a k dot org and 2524 01:51:30,609 --> 01:51:34,909 right we also have a youtube channel 2525 01:51:32,989 --> 01:51:37,130 with more than 50,000 subscribers Oh 2526 01:51:34,909 --> 01:51:38,689 fabulous the magazine TV there's no 2527 01:51:37,130 --> 01:51:39,520 magazine TV on YouTube thank you for 2528 01:51:38,689 --> 01:51:42,099 mentioning that and we 2529 01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:43,300 we'll provide a link for that that's all 2530 01:51:42,100 --> 01:51:45,100 we have the time for Robert has been an 2531 01:51:43,300 --> 01:51:48,310 absolute pleasure Robert Fleischer thank 2532 01:51:45,100 --> 01:51:49,630 you so very much thank you and with that 2533 01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:51,220 it's time to say good night thanks for 2534 01:51:49,630 --> 01:51:53,170 listening if you want to hear more 2535 01:51:51,220 --> 01:51:55,000 follow-up conversation between Robert 2536 01:51:53,170 --> 01:51:55,930 and myself you can go to Richard Olin 2537 01:51:55,000 --> 01:51:58,449 members com 2538 01:51:55,930 --> 01:52:00,670 where we go further into amazing 2539 01:51:58,449 --> 01:52:03,970 conversation about a practically 2540 01:52:00,670 --> 01:52:07,270 forgotten but very compelling French 2541 01:52:03,970 --> 01:52:09,190 case from 1965 the valence all landing 2542 01:52:07,270 --> 01:52:10,750 event which Robert has done a great deal 2543 01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:13,329 of follow-up investigation on and 2544 01:52:10,750 --> 01:52:15,130 remember while we learn and grow and 2545 01:52:13,329 --> 01:52:18,210 search for the truth let's be good to 2546 01:52:15,130 --> 01:52:18,210 each other good night 2547 01:52:22,130 --> 01:52:26,430 thanks for listening to the Richard 2548 01:52:24,029 --> 01:52:29,639 Dolan show you can join me live most 2549 01:52:26,430 --> 01:52:31,680 Monday's @kg are a radio 8 p.m. eastern 2550 01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:34,140 time to learn more about what I'm up to 2551 01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:35,880 visit Richard Dolan members comm where 2552 01:52:34,140 --> 01:52:38,100 you can read my latest articles or 2553 01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:39,210 listen to my off-the-cuff thoughts on 2554 01:52:38,100 --> 01:52:41,039 pretty much anything 2555 01:52:39,210 --> 01:52:43,529 also don't forget Richard Olin press 2556 01:52:41,039 --> 01:52:45,810 comm where I publish books by myself and 2557 01:52:43,529 --> 01:52:49,399 some of the most interesting authors of 2558 01:52:45,810 --> 01:52:49,400 our time catch you later 2559 01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:54,280 [Music] 2560 01:52:52,219 --> 01:52:54,279 you